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Panasonic's new AG-CX350 camcorder

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    Originally posted by mitteg View Post
    Please, can anyone test the SRT streaming feature? We need to know if it is possible to stream at low bitrates (1Mbps at HEVC using SRT). We will be using 4G networks so there is no point in using high bitrates. The new firmware states that the minimum bitrate is 8Mbps, which is too much. Can anyone confirm? Thanks!
    The H.265 (HEVC) streaming options only seem to be available when streaming in 4K (this is true for both SRT or RTSP streaming). The HD streaming options retain the same codec (H.264) and bitrate options as before the latest 6.01 firmware update. Although you now have the option to stream using the SRT protocol (in addition to RTSP and RTMP) when streaming in HD.

    The way this was implemented, is that a separate Streaming 4K option was added in the Network menu, and this presents different streaming encoding options than if you select the original (HD) Streaming option. The full set of streaming codecs are listed in the table in the Streaming section of the manual:
    https://pro-av.panasonic.net/manual/...er09_06_01.htm

    You'll notice that only the 4K streaming resolutions have both H.264 and H.265 options as all of the HD (and below) streaming resolutions are H.264. Note also that when streaming using the SRT protocol, only 720p and higher encoding resolutions are enabled (this is indicated by a * in the table). The lower resolution (360p and below) streaming options are not available when using SRT.

    Having said all that, there HD streaming settings as low as 1 Mbps for 720p25/30 or 1080p25/30 if you need them, but I believe these are H.264 rather than H.265 (HEVC). I'm not entirely sure why there are no H.265/HEVC streaming options in HD, but this is consistent with the internal recording options for the camera which are also H.264-only for 1080p and below and only give you a choice of H.264 or H.265/HEVC in 4K. For the internal recording formats, this decision made some sense as the bitrates for internal recording in HD are high enough that using H.265 rather than H.264 probably doesn't bring about significant improvements in video quality. For the much lower bitrates used for streaming, H.265 seems like it would be more beneficial, even in HD. Perhaps the camera's H.265 encoding implementation is optimized for higher resolutions like 4K, or maybe this is just an oversight, I'm not really sure.

    Comment


      Thanks for your detailed response. I'm a little bit disappointed of the SRT implementation that Panasonic did. It seems like they just translate the codecs and bitrates from the recording side to the streaming side, which needs a completely different approach. BTW, nobody really streams at 4k, specially on location. Facebook accepts only 720p to begin with.

      I just thought I would be able achieve similar performance and reliability that I get now using LiveU 4G bonding encoder when contributing from a remote side. SRT is a protocol designed for unreliable networks so it could be a great candidate to substitute some old h264 RTMP encoders. But high-bitrates and inneficient codecs like h264 are just a dissapointment.

      I really do not see the point in the built-in streaming options in these camcorders. Who does a streaming directly to youtube? With no mixing, no graphics, just one camera. What kind of professional production requires this? On the other hand, build-in streaming options could be a GREAT way for contributing cameras to a control room. And having an integrated encoder will just simplify the workflow (no external encoders, external batteries, cables...). Another missed oportunity.

      Originally posted by davedv View Post
      The H.265 (HEVC) streaming options only seem to be available when streaming in 4K (this is true for both SRT or RTSP streaming). The HD streaming options retain the same codec (H.264) and bitrate options as before the latest 6.01 firmware update. Although you now have the option to stream using the SRT protocol (in addition to RTSP and RTMP) when streaming in HD.

      The way this was implemented, is that a separate Streaming 4K option was added in the Network menu, and this presents different streaming encoding options than if you select the original (HD) Streaming option. The full set of streaming codecs are listed in the table in the Streaming section of the manual:
      https://pro-av.panasonic.net/manual/...er09_06_01.htm

      You'll notice that only the 4K streaming resolutions have both H.264 and H.265 options as all of the HD (and below) streaming resolutions are H.264. Note also that when streaming using the SRT protocol, only 720p and higher encoding resolutions are enabled (this is indicated by a * in the table). The lower resolution (360p and below) streaming options are not available when using SRT.

      Having said all that, there HD streaming settings as low as 1 Mbps for 720p25/30 or 1080p25/30 if you need them, but I believe these are H.264 rather than H.265 (HEVC). I'm not entirely sure why there are no H.265/HEVC streaming options in HD, but this is consistent with the internal recording options for the camera which are also H.264-only for 1080p and below and only give you a choice of H.264 or H.265/HEVC in 4K. For the internal recording formats, this decision made some sense as the bitrates for internal recording in HD are high enough that using H.265 rather than H.264 probably doesn't bring about significant improvements in video quality. For the much lower bitrates used for streaming, H.265 seems like it would be more beneficial, even in HD. Perhaps the camera's H.265 encoding implementation is optimized for higher resolutions like 4K, or maybe this is just an oversight, I'm not really sure.

      Comment


        Yep, I see the streaming capabilities as something to fill the brochure with. In the end, not very practical for today's needs. 5-10 years ago, a live camera popping on YouTube or Facebook might have been useful, but now, everybody would be disappointed in the lack of switching and graphics - for no money...

        Comment


          Absolutely

          Originally posted by Bassman2003 View Post
          Yep, I see the streaming capabilities as something to fill the brochure with. In the end, not very practical for today's needs. 5-10 years ago, a live camera popping on YouTube or Facebook might have been useful, but now, everybody would be disappointed in the lack of switching and graphics - for no money...

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            Does anyone know what happens with this camera that there is no stock in the stores?

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              Many cameras are back-ordered because of shortages of the parts to make them.

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                Can they replace the Panasonic AG CX350?

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                  Yeah, but business conditions aren't ideal; could also make less cameras, if any.

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                    I wonder if it is better to wait and not buy the AG CX350 now?

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                      I'd say so...another two months until NAB when a few new models will be released.

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                        This is a dilemma because I need a camera soon, I don't think they will improve the AG CX350 much with the latest update it seems that it is better in focus. but you never know!

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by MCeron View Post
                          This is a dilemma because I need a camera soon, I don't think they will improve the AG CX350 much with the latest update it seems that it is better in focus. but you never know!
                          With Canon scheduled to introduce their new XF605 at the end of the month, wonder what Panasonic’s counter will be? Wish my CX350 had better autofocus and a higher quality sharper LCD monitor.

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                            Despite the latest V.6.0 update?
                            Precisely what the new small AC Cx10 etc. bring. very good viewfinder and focus. but 1/25 sensor

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                              Hasn't auto focus improved with the latest V.6.0 update?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by MCeron View Post
                                This is a dilemma because I need a camera soon, I don't think they will improve the AG CX350 much with the latest update it seems that it is better in focus. but you never know!
                                I wouldn't wait if you need it. I would treat it as if it were a rental. If something better comes out sell it.

                                The development cycle for camera companies is painfully slow. Even if they were going to replace this with a new model (which I don't think they will) it takes a long time from the announcement until the time it's in stock at a store. With the pandemic related chip shortages who knows how long the wait might be. I bought a UX90 and UX180 which was released in 2016. Five years later there isn't a new model and they're still selling the same camera.

                                As far as auto focus is concerned most if not all camcorders use the same contrast detection technology. Over the years they add tweaks but nothing game changing like you find in mirrorless and dslrs. I'm not sure why.

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