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DVX200 footage Way Too Noisy. How to fix it?

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    DVX200 footage Way Too Noisy. How to fix it?

    I traded-in my old Panasonic HC-X1 for a new DVX200 because I figured a larger sensor chip would produce a less noisy image with more light sensitivity. Boy was I wrong. This DVX200 produces the noisiest image I've seen since my old GH2 days. My old HC-X1 produced a cleaner image with its 1" sensor chip which is significantly smaller than the 4/3" chip inside the DVX200. Did I get a bad apple or are they all this way?

    DVX200 Noise Sample 2.jpg

    DVX200 Noise Sample 2 BW.jpg


    The noise is even more pronounced when I de-saturate the image. I'm using Red Giant's Denoiser III to clean up the image but it's giving me bad digital artifacts in the shadows. Can anyone recommend a better method of noise removal?
    Benjamin Bettenhausen
    Mahalo Video
    www.mahalovideo.com

    #2
    Originally posted by Benjobe View Post
    I traded-in my old Panasonic HC-X1 for a new DVX200 because I figured a larger sensor chip would produce a less noisy image with more light sensitivity. Boy was I wrong. This DVX200 produces the noisiest image I've seen since my old GH2 days. My old HC-X1 produced a cleaner image with its 1" sensor chip which is significantly smaller than the 4/3" chip inside the DVX200. Did I get a bad apple or are they all this way?
    The HC-X1 is a newer camera than the DVX200. While a micro 4/3 sensor is larger, it's proportion was meant for photography. To get a 16:9 video out of squarish sensor the top and bottom needs to be cropped off, losing most of it's size advantage. That being said there shouldn’t be a huge difference between the cameras and your expectations are unrealistic. The Panasonic CX350 would be a better choice because it uses a new stacked sensor technology and is about 2 stops more sensitive.

    For live performances I only do an exposure adjustment when necessary and don’t use noise reduction filters because they greatly increase the encode time and can make the image soft. Stage lighting is commonly uneven typically hot in the center and dark in the back/wings. It’s important to get some sort of compromise in exposure. Too bright you’ll blow out detail. Too dark and you’ll get noise in the shadows if you bring up the exposure too much in post. This could be your problem but the stills seem normal for an average typical high school production.
    Last edited by Peter C.; 07-01-2021, 04:49 AM.

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      #3
      normally the HC-X1 and THe DVX200 should be equal in low light noise. I limit my DVX200 till ISO2000 and never had problems with noisy images. And I shoot also stage shows with it. So what our your settings? I shoot always in 4K 50P so can I slowmo my footage if necessary. I also have the old sony nex FS100 (1080p) and with the 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 it's equal in low light to my dvx200 so that's a good low light performer.

      I found this answer from Barry Green:

      The DVX200 has about 28mm-wide field of view in 4K/UHD/FHD, but when you go to UHD/60p that field of view shrinks to 37mm, because the portions of the sensor used is reduced to about what a 1" sensor would be.

      Which brings up another potential point of differentiation, which is that I'd wager the DVX200 makes sharper images than the HC-X1. The DVX200 uses a 5K sensor to make its 4K images, but the HC-X1 uses a 4K sensor. Not a night-and day difference, I'm sure, but using a sensor with twice the surface area and 1.5x as many pixels (approx) will likely result in sharper images. Although I would bet that in UHD/60p and UHD/50p they're probably nigh unto identical.
      Last edited by BONLEV; 07-01-2021, 12:37 AM.
      panasonic DVX200, GH5s and HC-X920
      sony A7 and FS100
      gopro hero 7 black

      ryzen 3700x pc with 32gig ram
      moviestudio 17

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        #4
        Are you using High Sensitivity mode? If not, you should be. It adds a stop of sensitivity *and* in-camera noise reduction.

        Also....how much gain are you using?

        I do a lot of theatrical work with the DVX200 and can almost always get away with High Sens and no gain.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Peter C. View Post
          The HC-X1 is a newer camera than the DVX200... The Panasonic CX350 would be a better choice because it uses a new stacked sensor technology and is about 2 stops more sensitive.
          I considered the CX350 but I thought the DVX200 would more closely match my GH5 cameras. When recording a stage production I use multiple GH5 cameras and the DVX200. Unfortunately it's harder than I expected to match the GH5 footage. So it looks like I should have gotten the CX350 instead. Thanks for confirming that suspicion.
          Benjamin Bettenhausen
          Mahalo Video
          www.mahalovideo.com

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by BONLEV View Post
            normally the HC-X1 and THe DVX200 should be equal in low light noise. I limit my DVX200 till ISO2000 and never had problems with noisy images... Although I would bet that in UHD/60p and UHD/50p they're probably nigh unto identical.
            I was shooting UHD 60p with a 180 degree shutter and gain fluctuating between 9dB to 12dB. I was not using the "high sensitivity" mode which seems like it could be part of the problem.
            Benjamin Bettenhausen
            Mahalo Video
            www.mahalovideo.com

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Larry Chapman View Post
              I do a lot of theatrical work with the DVX200 and can almost always get away with High Sens and no gain.
              In the footage sample above I was shooting UHD 60p 180-degree shutter and gain 12dB.

              Good suggestion. I was under the impression that the "high sensitivity" mode made the image more noisy, so I was avoiding it. I will try enabling it to see how it affects the image quality and light sensitivity.
              Benjamin Bettenhausen
              Mahalo Video
              www.mahalovideo.com

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Benjobe View Post
                I was shooting UHD 60p with a 180 degree shutter and gain fluctuating between 9dB to 12dB. I was not using the "high sensitivity" mode which seems like it could be part of the problem.
                I never shoot with the 180degree shutter. When I shoot 50P my auto shutter drops to 1/50 in low light theatre. In your case with 60P you are shooting with a shutter of 1/180! So you lose a lot of light hitting the sensor -> more noise
                My footage looks smooth to me because the 50P (in your case 60p) I deliver my footage on usb sticks to clients in 1080p 50p.

                I have never used the high sensitivity before but After reading it a time ago I did some tests and It seems to work ok. Mostly stage events are well lit.

                I can match my GH5s and DVX200 perfectly by using the "The Like GH4 Scene File". I'm sure this will also work with your GH5.
                panasonic DVX200, GH5s and HC-X920
                sony A7 and FS100
                gopro hero 7 black

                ryzen 3700x pc with 32gig ram
                moviestudio 17

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Benjobe View Post
                  In the footage sample above I was shooting UHD 60p 180-degree shutter and gain 12dB.

                  Good suggestion. I was under the impression that the "high sensitivity" mode made the image more noiy, so I was avoiding it. I will try enabling it to see how it affects the image quality and light sensitivity.
                  That’s your problem. I always use 30p because it lets in more light, allowing less gain, while being able to capture motion. If I still need 12db gain I accept it will be noisy.

                  As far as matching cameras I never mix camcorders with mirrorless. I find it easier to use two matched cameras. So I wouldn’t say you’d have any easier time matching cx350 than a dvx200. I film with a pair of ux90s because they’re so cheap I can afford two. I would love two cx350 but they’re too expensive.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Peter, Filming in 30P doesn't let more light in than filming in 60P. It's the shutter speed that makes the difference.
                    panasonic DVX200, GH5s and HC-X920
                    sony A7 and FS100
                    gopro hero 7 black

                    ryzen 3700x pc with 32gig ram
                    moviestudio 17

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by BONLEV View Post
                      Peter, Filming in 30P doesn't let more light in than filming in 60P. It's the shutter speed that makes the difference.
                      Semantics. I think (hope) we'll all agree for example that a 180 degree shutter at 30P lets in twice as much light as a 180 degree shutter at 60P.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Rainer View Post
                        Semantics. I think (hope) we'll all agree for example that a 180 degree shutter at 30P lets in twice as much light as a 180 degree shutter at 60P.
                        This

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