Steadycam, Glidecam, Gimbal, or Ronin? For DVX200 Camera.

[norway]

FWIW (and I haven't read the entire thread), if this is your first glidecam/steadicam you may quickly learn they are one of the most frustrating pieces of equipment to use (or use well).

Obviously look great when all is well but most people give up and move on to a gimbal these days. (Gimbals have their own issues too but most would agree they are much easier to use.)

You’re right. It is my first SteadiCam. And I also have a brand new DJI RS3 Pro (as well as the original Ronin from almost 10 years ago). So I am spoilt for choice.

Just wanted to see if I could get rid of that Z-axis “bounce”. I love a challenge!

[CharlesPapert]

Bought a 1/4" to 3/8" screw adapter so I could place the C70 closer to its center, and dynamic balance is much better now.

The total payload is now about 3.1 lbs (including pancake lens, BP-A30 battery). I believe that is too light, and adding the counterweights doesn't seem to get me anywhere. I am also fighting the pendulum effect even before putting it on the arm.

Just wanted to see if I could get rid of that Z-axis “bounce”. I love a challenge!

Just trying to make sure the terms you are using are the common usage so I can understand what the issues are.

By "dynamic balance" do you mean the basic balance when it is on the pin on the dock, just trying to get it to hang level, or are you talking about it dipping when you spin it on the pin? If the former, that is static balance and much easier to address.

3 lbs is on the lighter side, but I think the sled should balance out depending on what monitor and battery you are using on the base of the sled. If you add all the weights to the front and rear of the top stage, and balance by adjusting the gimbal position up and down, you should surely be able to get the rig only slightly bottom-heavy to get a 2.5 second drop time (again I'm interpreting what you are describing--I assume this is the "pendulum effect" you refer to). In theory one could balance the sled even with an iPhone on it, but the gimbal would be so low on the post that it would be silly! The goal is to land the gimbal as high as possible, no more than maybe 3" of post showing between the gimbal and top stage.

And finally I think when you refer to Z axis bounce you mean that which you normally get with the handheld gimbals. Yes, the Pilot is very capable of removing that. But as NorBro mentioned, it is a tough piece of gear to master, especially with such a light camera. You have many hours of practice ahead of you getting the super-light fingertip control down! I'd recommend picking up the Steadicam Handbook off Amazon which has a lot of practice exercises and operating tips within it.

But in the meantime, let's help you get balanced. A video illustrating your issues will REALLY help! If you don't want to post publicly, email me a link at charles@[my full name].com.

[norway]

Just trying to make sure the terms you are using are the common usage so I can understand what the issues are.

By "dynamic balance" do you mean the basic balance when it is on the pin on the dock, just trying to get it to hang level, or are you talking about it dipping when you spin it on the pin? If the former, that is static balance and much easier to address.

3 lbs is on the lighter side, but I think the sled should balance out depending on what monitor and battery you are using on the base of the sled. If you add all the weights to the front and rear of the top stage, and balance by adjusting the gimbal position up and down, you should surely be able to get the rig only slightly bottom-heavy to get a 2.5 second drop time (again I'm interpreting what you are describing--I assume this is the "pendulum effect" you refer to). In theory one could balance the sled even with an iPhone on it, but the gimbal would be so low on the post that it would be silly! The goal is to land the gimbal as high as possible, no more than maybe 3" of post showing between the gimbal and top stage.

And finally I think when you refer to Z axis bounce you mean that which you normally get with the handheld gimbals. Yes, the Pilot is very capable of removing that. But as NorBro mentioned, it is a tough piece of gear to master, especially with such a light camera. You have many hours of practice ahead of you getting the super-light fingertip control down! I'd recommend picking up the Steadicam Handbook off Amazon which has a lot of practice exercises and operating tips within it.

But in the meantime, let's help you get balanced. A video illustrating your issues will REALLY help! If you don't want to post publicly, email me a link at charles@[my full name].com.

Thanks, Charles!

Static balance is fine. Spinning the rig makes it wobble slightly towards one "corner" - but it is much less after I could reposition the mounting point for the camera closer to its center.

One thing I will try is with a larger lens instead of a pancake lens, because I have a sneaking suspicion the SteadiCams would handle an ENG style ("long") camera better than the DSLR style ones.

Will send a video eventually! Must get back to work for now.

[CharlesPapert]

Thanks, Charles!

Static balance is fine. Spinning the rig makes it wobble slightly towards one "corner" - but it is much less after I could reposition the mounting point for the camera closer to its center.

One thing I will try is with a larger lens instead of a pancake lens, because I have a sneaking suspicion the SteadiCams would handle an ENG style ("long") camera better than the DSLR style ones.

Will send a video eventually! Must get back to work for now.

OK good on dynamic vs static balance. Over the years I have seen the terms confused many times, so I wanted to make sure.

Adding weight is a good idea with a camera that light. The lighter the payload, the more squirrely the rig to the touch. A longer setup (front to back) aids with pan inertia as well, which is helpful. Configuring them with additional components and battery on rods with an air gap in the middle not only allows access to rear panel, but helps significantly with the inertia, as seen in below pic. This was on the set of a 20 minute one'r shoot, I had suggested to my operator that he borrow a lightweight rig for rehearsals to save his strength for the shoot itself (in this case an Aero 15 or possibly 30, I forgot which) and I loaned him the DSLR setup for that. bigsmallsteadicamsmall.jpeg

[norway]

OK good on dynamic vs static balance. Over the years I have seen the terms confused many times, so I wanted to make sure.

Adding weight is a good idea with a camera that light. The lighter the payload, the more squirrely the rig to the touch. A longer setup (front to back) aids with pan inertia as well, which is helpful. Configuring them with additional components and battery on rods with an air gap in the middle not only allows access to rear panel, but helps significantly with the inertia, as seen in below pic. This was on the set of a 20 minute one'r shoot, I had suggested to my operator that he borrow a lightweight rig for rehearsals to save his strength for the shoot itself (in this case an Aero 15 or possibly 30, I forgot which) and I loaned him the DSLR setup for that. bigsmallsteadicamsmall.jpeg

Charles - thanks for your input again. Everything is moving in the right direction. I wish there was a tidier way than having a HDMI to RCA video converter + USB battery, but it will have to do for now.

I really like the Varicam LT and DSLR setup above. Good point about the inertia.

I also sat down and read The Steadicam Operator's Handbook yesterday, and it turns out weight on the sled has zero impact on dynamic balance - it's all there in the first chapter!

[CharlesPapert]

Charles - thanks for your input again. Everything is moving in the right direction. I wish there was a tidier way than having a HDMI to RCA video converter + USB battery, but it will have to do for now.

I also sat down and read The Steadicam Operator's Handbook yesterday, and it turns out weight on the sled has zero impact on dynamic balance - it's all there in the first chapter!

You can pull power off the sled and use a 12v to 5v stepdown converter to lose the USB battery. I use these on my vintage video camera setups and I put the voltage board inside the video converter.

And yes--dynamic balance is simply a matter of distribution of masses so that everything is on a vertical (vs diagonal) line from top to bottom. Getting the rig to spin flat is important in any instance, but the less weight overall in the system, the more effect it will have on operation. So a lighter rig that exhibits a specific degree of precession (amount of deviation from a flat spin) will be more challenging to handle than a heavier rig with the same precession.

That all said: until one is really getting proficient at operating, chances are good that the operator's own influence will be greater than a slightly out of dynamic balance setup. So don't worry too much about a totally perfect spin for now! Do the "line dance" exercises until you are blue in the face! Just for historical perspective: the Model II Steadicam that was first used on The Shining had tragically terrible dynamic balance as it was later discovered, and yet Garrett Brown delivered legendarily great work with that setup...

Shining-Jaunty-Garrett-2.jpg

[norway]

You can pull power off the sled and use a 12v to 5v stepdown converter to lose the USB battery. I use these on my vintage video camera setups and I put the voltage board inside the video converter.

And yes--dynamic balance is simply a matter of distribution of masses so that everything is on a vertical (vs diagonal) line from top to bottom. Getting the rig to spin flat is important in any instance, but the less weight overall in the system, the more effect it will have on operation. So a lighter rig that exhibits a specific degree of precession (amount of deviation from a flat spin) will be more challenging to handle than a heavier rig with the same precession.

That all said: until one is really getting proficient at operating, chances are good that the operator's own influence will be greater than a slightly out of dynamic balance setup. So don't worry too much about a totally perfect spin for now! Do the "line dance" exercises until you are blue in the face! Just for historical perspective: the Model II Steadicam that was first used on The Shining had tragically terrible dynamic balance as it was later discovered, and yet Garrett Brown delivered legendarily great work with that setup...

Shining-Jaunty-Garrett-2.jpg

Thanks for the 12v to 5v step down tip. I didn't even think of that.

Will work on my "line dance" + cross hairs when I get my 70s bell-bottom denims delivered!

[CharlesPapert]

Thanks for the 12v to 5v step down tip. I didn't even think of that.

Will work on my "line dance" + cross hairs when I get my 70s bell-bottom denims delivered!

I use these for a lot of projects. Not much bigger than a thumbnail so there is often room inside component boxes, and adjustable output via a pot to whatever you want.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[norway]

I use these for a lot of projects. Not much bigger than a thumbnail so there is often room inside component boxes, and adjustable output via a pot to whatever you want.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The manufacturer name is kind of hilarious... HiLetGo? I bought one that is about 10 x 2 x 1cm, but it is good to know they come in even smaller sizes.

[norway]

CharlesPapert - one more thing: What do you think of the Steadimate RS? It is not a full Arri Trinity, but looks interesting. Can't find any reviews anywhere, so it can't be that popular...

If anyone needs some SteadiCam inspiration, this is a great site.

http://www.steadishots.org/shots_detail.cfm?shotID=20

[CharlesPapert]

CharlesPapert - one more thing: What do you think of the Steadimate RS? It is not a full Arri Trinity, but looks interesting. Can't find any reviews anywhere, so it can't be that popular...

If anyone needs some SteadiCam inspiration, this is a great site.

http://www.steadishots.org/shots_detail.cfm?shotID=20

I'm aware of the RS but I don't have any firsthand experience with it. There are a number of systems and variations of this concept out there--the Stabileye mounted on Steadicam for 1917 for instance. On paper it seems like it should work well.

Steadishots is indeed a great site--or was. It's been all but defunct for a number of years. It will be getting a fresh life as it incorporates into theop.io over the next few months, and the video clips will be slowly updated to HD as well. I just took a spin through my clips that were on there. Those commentaries are from like 2007...!