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    #31
    >Another thing is that Jan has been mysteriously quiet on this topic. Judging by her character I don't think she is choosing to ignore us, or simply hasn't seen this thread. Obviously Pany has instructed her not to say anything on the topic.

    You are way over the top in conspiracy land. I am swamped and just able to pick up a moment between customers at the IFP on a wireless connection.

    The price on the DVX100B is $3995. It will be available at the end of October. Many of the features are in the IBC thread, but Barry and Jarred have something cooking that should launch next week or so.

    Hope that helps,

    Jan
    Jan Crittenden Livingston
    Panasonic System Communications Corporation
    Partner Sales Manager, NY and NJ

    Comment


      #32
      He speaks! She speaks! 100B speaks! $3995/end/Oct!

      Barry, whooops, my error. I meant the DVX100C with HD and C mount. Get it? 100"C", C mount, HD. I wouldn't dead end the dvx100 series just because of 200. It's too good a design, footprint and form factor. The only thing I've seen better is the 100-JVC.

      I know, I know...what have I been smoking this morning. I just can't help looking at the framed evcx10 ad on my desk, realizing that in 15 years we've come full circle. The x10 shoulder brace is a classic: Pistol grip, double telescoping, shoulder pad. It's all so funny--this perpetual reinventing the wheel for indie cameras. The broadcast cameras have all pretty much looked the same for 2 decades.

      IMHO I think the dvx is a near perfect form factor design--for what it is. Prior to the dvx Panasonic was all over the form factor horizon with gizmoized 3 ccd prosumer cameras. The dvx100 line is the only Panasonic success story in their entire prosumer/indie history. I'd build a shrine for it, bow down to it. (I'll bet Jan has a dvx shrine in her home!)

      It's rare that a product does this well from the get-go. I think B will do just fine--maybe with a nominal carryover rebate from A to stoke new sales, appease delayed sales--until anyone comes along that can trump it in its price/feature range. That's the good news of a modular approach after getting the form factor right. It just seems to me that this is a rare instance when someone got it right--literally out of the box.

      I keep looking at the 100...thinking...why not just add a C mount to this puppy, HD chips...see where it goes. Don't need P2. It's merely a card carrier. Big deal. Add it as an adapter. Already painted it black. Nice. Leave the 200 for people more inclined toward serious indie/broadcast.

      So I eagerly await the B price and availability--just to see how Panasonic will handle the transition--see how much they've learned in the brave new world. No one will break down the door for B but it will serve its purpose and worthy "wait and see" 100 series continuation.

      In the meantime, the 100 series box is no hardware/firmware box to liesurely cast aside...

      Jan: heh...no conspiracy theory...just a need for fill in the blanks info. (Obviously where there is interest there is...money.) Thanks for the info! We'll see what Jarred has cooking--check with IFP update.

      Comment


        #33
        The eu site pretty good site--lots of info. Nothing on usa/ntsc site.

        Panny eu press release quote: "With the release of the P2miniCam, prices for all Panasonics SD mini DVs has been brought down making production on these high quality units much more cost effective." The word "all" is distressing. Maybe all pal...since ntsc is still 3995.

        IBC press release with most recent info:

        http://panasonic-broadcast.com/index...isplay=default

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          #34
          For me the real question concerns the "improved color reproduction" mentioned for the B. Is this a hardware or firmware upgrade? If the latter, will it possible to update the firmware on an A (which is often done with digital still cameras). My guess is we won't have answers to these questions until end of October, once the A rebate expires and the stock is depleted.

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            #35
            Originally posted by Jan_Crittenden
            >The price on the DVX100B is $3995. It will be available at the end of October. Many of the features are in the IBC thread, but Barry and Jarred have something cooking that should launch next week or so.

            Hope that helps,

            Jan
            I anxiously await to see what the Master Chefs of DVXUSER prepare. Could it be a hands-on review? Thanks for finally shutting us up, Jan.

            Comment


              #36
              Good points. I too would liked to see more camcorder firmware updates instead of waiting for upgrades dedicated to hardware--purchasing a new unit. Especially in the low end broadcast/indie market where 10k begins to look more like entry level (HVX, Avid, monitors, gizmos, capture/storage, etc.). The still image industry really has this together. They discovered long ago that it isn't just xyz megapixels and optics that creats good images. Firmware important. 100B looks more like frimware update--minor hardware.

              We can't much complain. Go talk to the digital EOS guy with two quality zooms--10k on the shoulder.

              For all the 24p talk methinks gamma curve adjustments et al easily equally important with Lieca, DV--it's a unit. That's what makes any camera remarkable.

              So there's not much to know outside IBC release, really. What you see is what you get for $3995 from A/B--since Jan stated the price will be the same. No surprises here.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Jan_Crittenden
                The price on the DVX100B is $3995. It will be available at the end of October. Many of the features are in the IBC thread, but Barry and Jarred have something cooking that should launch next week or so.

                Looks like the statement from Panasonic that the cost of "ALL Mini-DV cameras" are being reduced due to production cost savings is not true. Why on earth make such a bold statement in a press release? I know this is from a European Panasonic web site but the DVX 100 cameras are made in the same factory aren't they? Is there a European factory that can make the Pal cameras cheaper than the NSTC cameras?

                If Jan is correct that the cost of a 100B is going to be $4,000.00 I think many consumers are going to be going to other manufactures. If it had a 16X9 chip then 4K might be reasonable.

                As a consumer I think the retail MSRP price point of this camera on the top end should be 2,995 with a street price of at least a hunderd or two lower. Sony, JVC and Canon might be jumping for joy over this announcement. But I'm still perplexed about announcing a lower price and then not following through with it.

                I said that I would be the first in line at EVS to get the 'B', but if there isn't a substantial discount I think I'm going to have to take that statement back.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Don't forget there's still the 100A with the $500 rebate--takes the price down to 2.9k range at EVS, elsewhere. There are good options...till the end of the Oct rebate. After that--who knows?!

                  Not the best wording for what amounts to be world wide press release--should have read "selected" rather than "all mini-dv"...

                  Come to think of it--there must be some interest in the A/B thingy...over 20,000 dvxuser views on this specific subject.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    >Come to think of it--there must be some interest in the A/B thingy...over 20,000 dvxuser >views on this specific subject.

                    Nah, it's just me checking back every 10 minutes to see if there is a new development. Should I pull the trigger, yes no....

                    To B or not to B, that is the question.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Kelly Olsen
                      If Jan is correct that the looks like the statement from Panasonic that the cost of a 100B is going to be $4,000.00 I think many consumers are going to be going to other manufactures. If it had a 16X9 chip then 4K might be reasonable.
                      The list price of the DVX100A is $3995. The DVX100B which does a little more is $3995. The fact is that none of these cameras sell at list price and are comparably priced with the competition, and in fact is far below the only other 24P camcorder out there. You cannot compare street price on one to list price on another, both have to be the same sort of apple.

                      Best,

                      Jan
                      Jan Crittenden Livingston
                      Panasonic System Communications Corporation
                      Partner Sales Manager, NY and NJ

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Jan_Crittenden
                        The list price of the DVX100A is $3995. The DVX100B which does a little more is $3995. The fact is that none of these cameras sell at list price and are comparably priced with the competition, and in fact is far below the only other 24P camcorder out there.
                        Jan, thanks for comments. I agree that the DVX is below other cameras out there with 24p (Canon XL2). I think other consumers may look at the Sonys with HDV (and not get the a true 24p) because some are almost half the "list" of the MSRP of the DVX.

                        I am not one of those consumers and I am chomping at the bit to give Panasonic my money but still think the list price is high. Just my opinion. Could be wrong, but it's my gut reactionon as a consumer. I do think Panasonic made a good move with the rebates for the 100A, even though the main motive is to move stock. But whatever the motive, it is good for the consumer and good for the company.

                        It's just that the improvements on the 100B don't sound like they warrant keeping the camera at that 4K list. I understand that nothing sells at list but that is the number that a dealer discount works from so the higher the list the higher the discounted actual cost is going to be to us.

                        And here's the final thing. I know you didn't write the Panasonic European press realease but do you have any comment on why it says prices for ALL mini-DV cameras are being reduced when in fact the list price for the DVX is staying the same?

                        Could it be that the prices to the dealers are being reduced even though the "list" price remains the same which in turn could mean a reduction in price to the consumer once the dealer discount is applied?

                        As I stated prior, I assume that all the DVX's are made at the same factory regardless if PAL or NSTC so the production cost reduction mentioned in the press release should apply to camera sold in the US as well Europe, shouldn't it?

                        I mean, this isn't a rumor we are talking about this is an oficial statement of some sort from Panasonic. Any Ideas?

                        Thanks again for your time and hope you understand that the passion here is because we (I) really love these cameras. We (I) just want the prices to be at a point were we can buy even more of them!

                        Kelly

                        Comment


                          #42
                          I'm not Jan, but let me try to offer something to think about:

                          For the duration of this year, Jan has been bundling the DVX with various freebies, up to the latest bundle which is about $1200 worth of stuff. Nobody else gets that free stuff, nobody else gets a rebate, nobody else gets the Magic Bullet or the AMQ's, and only New Zealand buyers get the free Book/DVD. So if the other countries are lowering the price, that's more of something that should be looked at as "it's about time" rather than "why doesn't the US do it too?"

                          The DVX in the USA has been a lot less expensive than in other countries, because of the rebate and freebies. If Panasonic Europe lowers its price, then it's only trying to catch up to the US...
                          ..
                          The AU-EVA1 Book - The DVX200 Book - The UX180 & UX90 Book - Lighting For Film & TV - Sound For Film & TV

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                            #43
                            Barry, I hope you are hard at work writing the new book for the DVX 100B. I don't want to think about having the B without your guidance!

                            Comment


                              #44
                              I can't disagree with any of these comments. I think the 100A deal is a bugeyed deal! I drool over the 100B--but am no fetishist in these matters. (Regardless of whether they're dumping lead based cameras on ntsc market)

                              The 100B at $3995? Forget it. Must be an inside joke. They're pretty much charging everyone for a firmware upgrade to wring the last centola of the current 100 iteration. Get the A, $4.95 16:9 lcd overlay. Deal with it. (Though I just may opt for B for my own warped "preverted" reasons.) Pshaw. Convince me a few firmware upgrades, itty bitty hardware upgrade sans lead, is worth the same list/street price. It's only worth it because someone else hasn't come along with a comparable product. That's true. The old school of marketing says, "Hey why change until someone else does something? Take the profits off a Wheaties New & Improved promotion." The new way is, "How do we keep this rolling to facilitate and entrench market share." The Panny 200 isn't it. The 100B at 4k (phoney dedicated authorized dealer street price of 3.3k) is a hole waiting for a Canon Kenworth to drive thru. But if and when they do--the dvx may be the "what happended to me?" camera geek limping to catch up. Is the 6k 200 the answer? As I said in another post--24P is no holy grail. It's just 24 whatever that works for now. It's the firmware matched to 24p/optics that makes sense. Dvx got it right. So okay, call it 24f, do it another way. (Sorry, I think the industrial desgn of the 200 is a dud--but then I thought the Beatles were a flash in the pan circa '60s.)

                              And you know what they say about market share: If you get it, good for you. Entrench it. If you then lose it, kiss all those profits goodbye because the cost for getting it back will subsequently bury you. I get the feeling Panasonic might be getting paunchy around the middle, smoking too many cigars over the dvx line. The 100B intro is totally impressive. Subsequent reviews will only reveal imageware puff. (Of course, if it's good stuff...I would smoke it! 'course, I'd smoke a rope if it was soaked in diesel...)

                              But the dvx/200, sans interchangeable lens option? No. That's no answer. <titter, titter> No cinematographer--indie or otherwise--would ever want to be tied to a one lens option to craft an image or look--regardless how well they light. (Though a broadcast dude might...)

                              The dvx 100B is destined to be a 100A king with no clothes. Don't blink on the 200. All indie/broadcast cameras without interchangeable lenses are peas under the shell, potential denuded kings. The good news is they can get up on the big screen--with coaxing. And short of a Cinealta--do the pea under the shell for 6-10k. (Smoke/mirrors, whatever...)

                              Still, the king with no clothes can make a good buck. Great place to show craft skills...without the image. (Read Phil Parmet/NSchrieber "It is what it is" dvxuser article pieces. Can we love a whore? You betcha x 2! So when has a cinematrographer commited to an image ever been a moralist?) The moral is don't fall in love with hardware. The image transcends mere boxes...)

                              I want to see success--for the right reasons. Panasonic is at the cusp but no more than a precipice. The king of the hill is never king long. And when he has no clothes is fully exposed...

                              Long live dvx!

                              Comment


                                #45
                                hmmm...all black body?

                                that looks exactly like the DVC-80 body.....I guess they got stuck with all those 80's. Long live the recycle concept!
                                formerly known as Super8
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