need help converting footage using 2:3:3:2 pulldown removal

[jcampise]

Hi all! I’ve tried just about everything I can think up to this point and am looking for any advice or pointers.

Context - I shot a short film on two DVX100Bs in 24Pa mode. Both cameras ran the S-video out to a HDMI converter which ran to an Atomos Ninja 2. The files I’m left with are 1280x720 (original 4x3 stretched) Prores 422 in 60 fps. I have no footage on tape, only .mov files.

What I’d like to do is use 2:3:3:2 pulldown removal to convert these files to true 24fps (or 23.976) to streamline editing, minimize file sizes and simplify final VFX and color.

I’m editing in Premiere Pro and have had no luck assuming frame rate or putting the footage in a 23.976 timeline. I end up with slowed down footage or duplicated in-between frames from the original 60fps clips.

I imported some clips into After Effects and followed THIS Adobe help forum which claimed to help remove 24Pa pulldown from video. When I click “Guess 24Pa Pulldown” I get a Macintosh ping sound leading me to assume it did not work. I click "ok" and nothing happens as far as I can tell. There’s no additional steps in the article. Has anyone used this method before?

My last effort was using the DVFilm Maker program on my PC but I ran into error messages. It was not able to convert my .mov files because the frame size was too big - "For HD-sized frames 2:3:3:2 pulldown removal only for HVX200 .mxf files. When I converted a clip to the more "true" HVX100 file (4x3, 480p) all I got was a green video export. Marcus (software’s creator) told me I would need to capture the video directly from my camera through the FireWire port into an .avi file using my DV editing system. Which isn’t possible for me because I never recorded to tape. I tried to convert a few clips to .avi and other workarounds but I haven’t had any success.

Does anyone have any advice or leads on what I should try next?

Thanks! Much appreciated.

[NorBro]

If you asked this question 15 years ago, you'd get dozens of responses immediately. For me, it's been so long that I don't remember anything anymore about those workflows.

But something seems off that might be messing it all up, like maybe the 60p (different than 60i). But dropping 60p into a 24p timeline shouldn't automatically slow down the footage unless you make that happen (usually with a button click, option, prompt, etc). Also, NLEs would first drop frames here, not duplicate them. They would duplicate them if you were to add 24p into a 60p timeline. (Something seems wrong.)

With that said, all I can remember is all of us shot to tape and used Apple's Cinema Tools, which was like one step to make the conversion (very easy).

I would ask at Creative COW and maybe even FCP.co if you don't get any hits here.

[cyvideo]

Do you have a sample file you can upload for test purposes? It always seems to be a better way to approach this sort of problem, rather than trying to come up with a variety of suggested solutions that may or may not work. Having done a lot of history doco editing with footage of every conceivable frame rate both interlaced and progressive and in every standard and format size you can imagine from the early 1900s to the current day I have some ideas. But would need a good sample to play with.

Chris Young

[jcampise]

Do you have a sample file you can upload for test purposes?

Here's a link to a Google Drive folder with a few samples.I believe the clips are progressive, not interlaced because of the stretched resizing of the conversion from s-video > HDMI.

[NorBro]

They are 720/60p as you mentioned.

The footage actually looks better than I expected and that DVX100B color never gets old, but you have the infamous comb/ghosting effect going on (most visible on the left shoulder and hat). This was highly popular back in the day from different deinterlacing methods.

The problem with recording to an external recorder - as good as they can be - is they don't have sophisticated ways of working with the fields when converting the interlaced signal to a progressive result.

Maybe worth a quick read: https://support.apple.com/guide/comp...sr8747dc16/mac

Nevertheless...this is forever burned into the footage. But I did take your clips and drop them onto a 720/24p timeline and FCP just removed the frames and they playback fine (normal time, not slow-motion).

Footage.jpg

[cyvideo]

As NorBro says. All the nasties already baked in. Very hard to undo once that has happened. Can be improved, though.

To remove duplicate frames and to try to recover the 24 motion cadence, I used an Inverse Telecine 23.976 (IVTC) timeline. Then used settings of Gaussian Blur and Deinterlacing by using Blend Fields and Forced Resampling. Then added a ReVision RSMB filter and rendered out to 23.976. I think it looks better. When you step through, you don't see any more duplicate frames.

Chris Young

Files here:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtImLuGZQ98YlHJM...ny6XC?e=GbY30L

and

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtImLuGZQ98YlHRt...3yLz9?e=LCqPaD

60 to 24 + RSMB force resample.mp4_snapshot_00.15.850.jpg

[NorBro]

You see a little bit of the duplicate frames (if that's what they are, but I think it's more ghosting), but that's much better!

These methods often mask and soften the problem at the expense of detail, but it's less distracting.

Then again who but forum nerds are going to notice.

___

Sometimes I feel like we were beta testers for technology through the 80s (90s for me) into the early 2010s...what a nightmare tapes and interlaced formats and low-resolutions were...but honestly wouldn't have had it any other way.

[cyvideo]

Sometimes I feel like we were beta testers for technology through the 80s (90s for me) into the early 2010s...what a nightmare tapes and interlaced formats and low-resolutions were...but honestly wouldn't have had it any other way.

Oh, yes. But it was the challenges of overcoming all those issues that brought a smile to the face when you had your little victories against the current technology when it conspired against you.

Chris Young