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Where's mid gray in the cinelike gammas?

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    Where's mid gray in the cinelike gammas?

    Where is mid gray in the cinelike and b.press gammas?

    I want to start using gray card to set exposure because I am sick of ugly skin high lights. But I tried to search where the gammas put mid gray for reference but can't find.
    I have been noticing that the AF100 looks totally left alone by third parties. Nobody wants to do deep tests or make nice equipment for it. The sony and canon cameras get all the candy. Why is this?
    When I tried to find gamma information for the AF100 on google I actually found for FS700 and F3 instead. Nice tests with graphics like this: http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/03/31/...dynamic-range/ and this
    http://resources.abelcine.com/2012/0...d-slow-motion/ .
    But nothing for AF100. I think is very hard to find good deep tests for the AF100. Very frustrating.

    #2
    Get your self a gray scale chart and do your own test.

    You will see White and Black on the WFM so expose them correctly. (Simple)

    Take a look at the mid grays and you have an answer.

    (Not sure if that entirely will solve your skin highlight issues though.)
    www.shooterfilm.co.nz

    Panasonic AF102

    SONY-FS700R

    RR baseplate , F/F, Shoot35 Cinebox, Panasonic 1700HD Monitors. Adaptimax adapters. Ikan VX7e. Samurai

    Prime Lenses: Nikkors . 20/f2.8, 24/f2.8, 28/f2.8, 35/f2.8, 50/f1.4, 50/f2, Micro 55/f3.5, Micro 60/f2.8, 85/f1.8, 105/f2.5, 135/f2.8, Contax -Zeiss 28/f2.8, 35/f2.8, 50/f1.7, 85/f2.8

    VariPrimes: Nikkor 17-35/f2.8, Nikkor 28-70/f2.8,

    GH2. Olympus 14-54 MkII

    Cartoni , Weaver Heads , Miller legs. Zhuter Slider

    Comment


      #3
      Why you so grumpy? If I had means to do tests myself I would not ask.

      Comment


        #4
        Sorry... wasnt being grumpy.

        Why you so grumpy? If I had means to do tests myself I would not ask.
        Assumed you had a camera seeing as you have stated you have issues when using it.

        Assumed you had a graycard seeing as you intend to use it.


        Nobody wants to do deep tests or make nice equipment for it.
        Thats why I suggested you could do this very simple test your self.


        So exactly what is the answer you are looking for and what is the nice equipment you need?


        FWIW: I am only suggesting something that I did for myself. Comprehensive tests with skin and gray scale charts and color charts.
        Results are on this forum some where as Frame Grabs.
        www.shooterfilm.co.nz

        Panasonic AF102

        SONY-FS700R

        RR baseplate , F/F, Shoot35 Cinebox, Panasonic 1700HD Monitors. Adaptimax adapters. Ikan VX7e. Samurai

        Prime Lenses: Nikkors . 20/f2.8, 24/f2.8, 28/f2.8, 35/f2.8, 50/f1.4, 50/f2, Micro 55/f3.5, Micro 60/f2.8, 85/f1.8, 105/f2.5, 135/f2.8, Contax -Zeiss 28/f2.8, 35/f2.8, 50/f1.7, 85/f2.8

        VariPrimes: Nikkor 17-35/f2.8, Nikkor 28-70/f2.8,

        GH2. Olympus 14-54 MkII

        Cartoni , Weaver Heads , Miller legs. Zhuter Slider

        Comment


          #5
          Answer I look for are like the abelcine F3 test which has graphics showing that mid gray sits at 40% in hypergamma 1, 50% in REC 709 and so on. They have same test for FS700. But not for AF100. Why no interest?

          Nobody never did this test with AF100 online?

          No special equipment needed now. I just notice that not much is available for AF100 like for the other cameras and was thinking why? AF100 looks left alone in some sense.

          Comment


            #6
            You can look at those Abel Cine test with an academic interest or a cameramans eye.

            Both valid but depends on what the information is applied for.

            They are easy to do.



            FYI - The AF100 was comprehensively tested in The Great Camera Shoot Out.

            A grand scale and expensive test comparison of the relative merits of a bunch of digital cameras by a bunch of well respected cinematographers and camera technicians.
            www.shooterfilm.co.nz

            Panasonic AF102

            SONY-FS700R

            RR baseplate , F/F, Shoot35 Cinebox, Panasonic 1700HD Monitors. Adaptimax adapters. Ikan VX7e. Samurai

            Prime Lenses: Nikkors . 20/f2.8, 24/f2.8, 28/f2.8, 35/f2.8, 50/f1.4, 50/f2, Micro 55/f3.5, Micro 60/f2.8, 85/f1.8, 105/f2.5, 135/f2.8, Contax -Zeiss 28/f2.8, 35/f2.8, 50/f1.7, 85/f2.8

            VariPrimes: Nikkor 17-35/f2.8, Nikkor 28-70/f2.8,

            GH2. Olympus 14-54 MkII

            Cartoni , Weaver Heads , Miller legs. Zhuter Slider

            Comment


              #7
              Yes I watched the zacuto test. Only one I ever seen so deep with AF100. But mid gray info was not in there.

              Can you explain how to do the test?

              I must know where mid gray is with each gamma so I can select better gamma for situation.

              But what you mean here: You can look at those Abel Cine test with an academic interest or a cameramans eye.

              Comment


                #8
                But what you mean here: You can look at those Abel Cine test with an academic interest or a cameramans eye.
                A cameraman will look at a scope and know where and how to expose Shadow, Highlights and Mids.

                An Academic will look at a scope and see a bunch of numbers and info.

                In a practical sense (shooting / lighting on set) what does one do with a gray card and the number 44%?

                Test Procedure:

                Have two cards set up in front of the camera on stands or supports. A White card and a Gray card (+ gray scale card optional)

                The *BG is black and unlit. Distance to bg is your friend. Black Velvatine or fake felt is best (non reflecting)

                Light cards with a single flat (even) light source. ( Check with an incident light meter)


                * You can use an unlit Black card in a box so that no light strikes the card alongside the cards instead of a black BG.

                Object is to have only Black, White and Midtone grays in your shot. ( Keep your frame clear of other stuff that will confuse the wfm reading)

                Choose your Scene File ( note it on a postie note and put that in the frame to id each scene file test)

                Expose your White Card at exactly 100% on the WFM.

                Theory is ....all the tones down from white to black / shadow... fall into place below the white exposure.

                When in your NLE..open the scopes and work out what you want , from what you see in them.

                Other wise ..take note from the WFM scope on the camera during shoot or replays.
                www.shooterfilm.co.nz

                Panasonic AF102

                SONY-FS700R

                RR baseplate , F/F, Shoot35 Cinebox, Panasonic 1700HD Monitors. Adaptimax adapters. Ikan VX7e. Samurai

                Prime Lenses: Nikkors . 20/f2.8, 24/f2.8, 28/f2.8, 35/f2.8, 50/f1.4, 50/f2, Micro 55/f3.5, Micro 60/f2.8, 85/f1.8, 105/f2.5, 135/f2.8, Contax -Zeiss 28/f2.8, 35/f2.8, 50/f1.7, 85/f2.8

                VariPrimes: Nikkor 17-35/f2.8, Nikkor 28-70/f2.8,

                GH2. Olympus 14-54 MkII

                Cartoni , Weaver Heads , Miller legs. Zhuter Slider

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Shooter View Post
                  A cameraman will look at a scope and know where and how to expose Shadow, Highlights and Mids.

                  An Academic will look at a scope and see a bunch of numbers and info.

                  In a practical sense (shooting / lighting on set) what does one do with a gray card and the number 44%?

                  Test Procedure:

                  Have two cards set up in front of the camera on stands or supports. A White card and a Gray card (+ gray scale card optional)

                  The *BG is black and unlit. Distance to bg is your friend. Black Velvatine or fake felt is best (non reflecting)

                  Light cards with a single flat (even) light source. ( Check with an incident light meter)


                  * You can use an unlit Black card in a box so that no light strikes the card alongside the cards instead of a black BG.

                  Object is to have only Black, White and Midtone grays in your shot. ( Keep your frame clear of other stuff that will confuse the wfm reading)

                  Choose your Scene File ( note it on a postie note and put that in the frame to id each scene file test)

                  Expose your White Card at exactly 100% on the WFM.

                  Theory is ....all the tones down from white to black / shadow... fall into place below the white exposure.

                  When in your NLE..open the scopes and work out what you want , from what you see in them.

                  Other wise ..take note from the WFM scope on the camera during shoot or replays.
                  Great info Shooter!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hope it helps some one...but note...there are also a few caveats in a test like this.


                    Reason I say to expose for the White ( Highlight) is to "protect the highlight.

                    Scene Files are not linear and vary in the way they expose the Gray Scale (gammas) and the Black (Shadow).

                    An example would be...underexpose the cine gamma scene files , 1- 1.5 stops, in a real shoot situation. (ie not a test such as this).

                    For the purpose of a test. Expose for the Whites in the WFM at 100%.
                    www.shooterfilm.co.nz

                    Panasonic AF102

                    SONY-FS700R

                    RR baseplate , F/F, Shoot35 Cinebox, Panasonic 1700HD Monitors. Adaptimax adapters. Ikan VX7e. Samurai

                    Prime Lenses: Nikkors . 20/f2.8, 24/f2.8, 28/f2.8, 35/f2.8, 50/f1.4, 50/f2, Micro 55/f3.5, Micro 60/f2.8, 85/f1.8, 105/f2.5, 135/f2.8, Contax -Zeiss 28/f2.8, 35/f2.8, 50/f1.7, 85/f2.8

                    VariPrimes: Nikkor 17-35/f2.8, Nikkor 28-70/f2.8,

                    GH2. Olympus 14-54 MkII

                    Cartoni , Weaver Heads , Miller legs. Zhuter Slider

                    Comment


                      #11
                      In this forum there's a tremendous amount of information, and great filmed examples by experienced shooters, about how to expose properly with an AF100. You'll find it interspersed between comments whining about blown-out highlights from people who want the AF100 to be a point-n-shoot camera.
                      Last edited by John B.; 01-31-2013, 02:29 PM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Shooter View Post
                        A cameraman will look at a scope and know where and how to expose Shadow, Highlights and Mids.

                        An Academic will look at a scope and see a bunch of numbers and info.

                        In a practical sense (shooting / lighting on set) what does one do with a gray card and the number 44%?

                        Test Procedure:

                        Have two cards set up in front of the camera on stands or supports. A White card and a Gray card (+ gray scale card optional)

                        The *BG is black and unlit. Distance to bg is your friend. Black Velvatine or fake felt is best (non reflecting)

                        Light cards with a single flat (even) light source. ( Check with an incident light meter)


                        * You can use an unlit Black card in a box so that no light strikes the card alongside the cards instead of a black BG.

                        Object is to have only Black, White and Midtone grays in your shot. ( Keep your frame clear of other stuff that will confuse the wfm reading)

                        Choose your Scene File ( note it on a postie note and put that in the frame to id each scene file test)

                        Expose your White Card at exactly 100% on the WFM.

                        Theory is ....all the tones down from white to black / shadow... fall into place below the white exposure.

                        When in your NLE..open the scopes and work out what you want , from what you see in them.

                        Other wise ..take note from the WFM scope on the camera during shoot or replays.
                        Thank you shooter. I will see where I get.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by John B. View Post
                          You'll find it interspersed between comments whining about blown-out highlights from people who want the AF100 to be a point-n-shoot camera.
                          http://sunnykobecook.files.wordpress...ad-in-sand.gif

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I'm not sure of your point here, but if the implication is that my comment means I have my "head in the sand," I assure you, the exact opposite is true. I know the pluses and minuses of the AF100 -- that's part of my job.

                            As a professional, to me these devices we're discussing are only tools -- not a religion, and it's up to me to know the characteristics, abilities, and limitations of my tools -- and how to get the most out of them. If a particular device isn't right for a given task, I switch to an appropriate tool rather lament endlessly about the limitations of that tool and how the company that made it is going to go out of business if they don't update it immediately.

                            But my point stands: The AF100 is not a point-n-shoot camera. It requires skilled use to get the quality results it's capable of.

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