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AF100 and DNxHD.mov What it gives to my footage.

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    AF100 and DNxHD.mov What it gives to my footage.

    There are NO findings in greater latitude in DNxHD tho I claim to have found it

    Hi,

    After getting my Hyperdeck shuttle 2 I wanted to know what I now can do with the af100.

    I google and I googled, searched here and there.
    What I read was the same thing, it really does not get much better then our in camera pro line AVCHD.

    But hey, why give up?
    There must be something.

    Dynamic stretching and noise reduction.

    If you look closely you see the transitioning line going from left to right, it goes from AVCHD to DNxHD.
    The level is raised to 2 in the mids and finetuned at the ends so the footage match each other. Then cleaned with Neat Video.

    Its not very apparent in that video or over YouTube for that matter but 4:2:2 and DNxHD in other tests gives you MUCH cleaner footage after noise reduction by Neat Video.
    One can say that the image looks calmer, no jumping comp artifacts.
    I suspect that it transfers better to film print because of the great result that can be achieved with noise reduction and sharpening.


    Whats left for us that want something useful in our bluray and YouTube production.
    I noticed greater latitude:
    Waveform.jpgWoods DNxHD.jpgWoods AVCHD.jpg

    This is by far the thing i LOVE most with the Hyperdeck and the codec.
    Look at the branches in the white part of the sky, I have done nothing to this material.

    What you see in the AVCHD can't be reversed. In the DNxHD its very pleasing amount of detail.
    As you see in the waveform there is a lot more there, even in the dark its smoother roll of.


    I also wanted to see what it would do with banding in the sky.
    comp skogstext.Still006.jpgdnxhd skogstext.Still005.jpg
    AVCHD to the left

    To my pleasant surprise there is improvement.
    If you want to goo super pixel peeping there is edge artifacts in the "compressed" footage in the tree and not in the DNxHD.


    Once i tried all of this I wanted to hook it up to my HX-WA10


    And oh what a joy
    First of all getting to see what I'm shooting while I'm shooting is a blast, with my Hyperdeck and SmallHD up on dry land.
    And you see all these detail and motion, the onboard codec does NOT hold up to this.
    It was fun until my badly constructed HDMI seal filled my camera with water hope for the best..


    Gears and facts:
    AF100 with HDMI to the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2.5 beta 3
    Windows 7 with Premiere pro CS5.5.2
    561CB44B-1458060.jpg
    Bottom mounted with my own construction. There are connection holes on the bottom of the mount as well.

    Scene file:
    V detail level -2
    Detail coring -1
    Chroma Level -2
    Gamma B.press
    Matrix Norm1
    Knee Mid

    Hyperdeck:
    DNxHD mov container

    Conclusion, I love how the Hyperdeck records my footage and color grading gets more fun.
    Last edited by Igelkott Film; 03-04-2012, 01:50 PM.
    Igelkott Film is Hedgehog Film
    www.igelkottfilm.com

    #2
    Very interesting! I'm going the AF101 + SD PIX240 route soon, so very interested in findings like this. Please keep us posted

    Comment


      #3
      It seems to me that the DNxHD files either have wrong levels or that the files are interpreted wrong. When recording to PRORES via the Samurai the levels are exactly the same AVCHD/PRORES in CS5/5.5 as it should be. You can't gain more DR with an external recorded really, just higher chroma resolution and less compression than the internal recording.

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks for posting the pics and video. Making me want to jump the the Hyperdeck!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by editman View Post
          It seems to me that the DNxHD files either have wrong levels or that the files are interpreted wrong. When recording to PRORES via the Samurai the levels are exactly the same AVCHD/PRORES in CS5/5.5 as it should be. You can't gain more DR with an external recorded really, just higher chroma resolution and less compression than the internal recording.
          If Im right its really exiting, if I'm wrong I want to know.
          How do you think we can test it?
          Igelkott Film is Hedgehog Film
          www.igelkottfilm.com

          Comment


            #6
            I have put footage from AVCHD and PRORES on top of each other in PP CS5.5 and running the footage reveals no visual difference what so ever when switching between them. The big difference is when you start to push the footage in post, then the PRORES holds much better and when you look at a pixel level that shows PRORES to have just a tad more detail. Levels stay the same between them.

            What often happens is that video levels get interpreted wrong and you'll end up with either a bit washed out footage, like the sample you show, or the other way around with clipped and crushed levels. The washed out footage can seem to have higher DR but it's just RGB 0-255 and Video 16-235 levels that are screwed up.

            Comment


              #7
              DNxHD is better then anything

              Uncompressed
              avchd to unc winter.jpgunc winter.jpg
              DNxHD
              avchd to dnxhd winter.jpgdnxhd winter.jpg
              AVCHD to the left

              I tested against uncompressed and it looked the same as AVCHD but DNxHD gave me more REAL latitude.
              Don't ask me how but I'm never updating my hyperdeck, I love it how it is.

              And see for your self www.igelkottfilm.se/video/DNxHD_test_2.zip (All four raw files)

              Homework:
              Try and make the uncompressed footage look as good as DNxHD

              Man this is COOL
              Last edited by Igelkott Film; 03-04-2012, 01:25 AM.
              Igelkott Film is Hedgehog Film
              www.igelkottfilm.com

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by editman View Post
                I have put footage from AVCHD and PRORES on top of each other in PP CS5.5 and running the footage reveals no visual difference what so ever when switching between them. The big difference is when you start to push the footage in post, then the PRORES holds much better and when you look at a pixel level that shows PRORES to have just a tad more detail. Levels stay the same between them.

                What often happens is that video levels get interpreted wrong and you'll end up with either a bit washed out footage, like the sample you show, or the other way around with clipped and crushed levels. The washed out footage can seem to have higher DR but it's just RGB 0-255 and Video 16-235 levels that are screwed up.
                "push the footage in post, then the PRORES holds much"
                I'm kind of trying to find when that happens but I haven't so far.

                Can you give me a test to run through?
                Igelkott Film is Hedgehog Film
                www.igelkottfilm.com

                Comment


                  #9
                  What you are showing is just like what I did here:

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by editman View Post
                    What you are showing is just like what I did here:
                    Yes

                    And what did you do?

                    What I want to know, is that information there in the other footage I posted?
                    Download and post back.
                    Igelkott Film is Hedgehog Film
                    www.igelkottfilm.com

                    Comment


                      #11
                      There's always some headroom on AF footage that can be brought back in post and that is just what I did. I suspect that when you import the DNxHD footage into your NLE (which one?) the RGB 0-255 level got pushed to fit within 16-235 and that showed what is hiding in the headroom of the footage. But it can be done just as easily in post.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by editman View Post
                        There's always some headroom on AF footage that can be brought back in post and that is just what I did. I suspect that when you import the DNxHD footage into your NLE (which one?) the RGB 0-255 level got pushed to fit within 16-235 and that showed what is hiding in the headroom of the footage. But it can be done just as easily in post.
                        Hi Editman,

                        can we hope that Samurai DNxHD files will be 100% windows compatible? BMD Hyperdeck Avid files seems to have a mac profile when wrapped in a *.mov container and when wrapped in a MXF container it seems they can be managed only by Avid systems. To avoid any gamma and color space issue now I'm recording uncompressed files with Hyperdeck while Samurai is sleeping on the shelf. If Atomos don't give me 100% compatible files (with EVERY sw) with the Avid update I probably will sell my Samurai

                        Regards

                        Gary

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by editman View Post
                          There's always some headroom on AF footage that can be brought back in post and that is just what I did. I suspect that when you import the DNxHD footage into your NLE (which one?) the RGB 0-255 level got pushed to fit within 16-235 and that showed what is hiding in the headroom of the footage. But it can be done just as easily in post.
                          My NLE is stated in my article.

                          Please post step by step on how fitt 0-255 to 16-235 in post?
                          And please post what treatment I can give it that AVCHD can't handle.


                          And just want to clarify i love the way it looks and movie making as all about love.
                          Last edited by Igelkott Film; 03-04-2012, 05:45 AM.
                          Igelkott Film is Hedgehog Film
                          www.igelkottfilm.com

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I guess when Samurai gets DNxHD into the Samurai it will be a quicktimefile encoded with DNxHD. I moved away from Avid because Premiere Pro handles files much better regardless of format. I also have used MXF workflow in Avid earlier and although it worked it had a few drawbacks.
                            Last edited by Alpha Beta Omega; 03-04-2012, 07:37 AM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I read somewhere that it's only Avid itself that gets the levels correct. Check this thread for what's going on:
                              http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?275609-Gamma-shift-when-recording-to-Hyperdeck-DNxHD

                              Comment

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