SD card advice for AF100

[Oliver Rush]

ATP Promax 32GB are around $120 on sale right now, plus of course shipping. I might have to get some more. Was hoping to find something local that wasn't as pricey as sandisk extreme.

(For anyone wondering, I have ordered from that company before and they are a reliable seller).

Why not just get PNY or Patriot Class 10 SDHC cards if you are going offbrand...? They are only around $50 each shipped for 32gb and are class 10. I use my Panny golds for all mission ciritical stuff for piece of mind, but for everyday recording, have not had issue with my PNY cards, and should be just as good as any offbrand card.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820178337

On a side note, I really wish panasonic still sold the old class 10 SDHC cards in addition to the new UHS one. I found them to be reliable, and swear by them for paid work, and I wish I could buy more of them. The UHS are a little more than I can justify for a SD card for the AF100, but the older pannys price at 16gb and 8gb was ok for me, and I really wanted more of the 16gb cards. (I dont like recording more than that much footage to a single card unless the situation calls for that long single takes...)

[Denwa]

Why not just get PNY or Patriot Class 10 SDHC cards if you are going offbrand...? They are only around $50 each shipped for 32gb and are class 10. I use my Panny golds for all mission ciritical stuff for piece of mind, but for everyday recording, have not had issue with my PNY cards, and should be just as good as any offbrand card.

Because they are not shock rated (resin encapsulated) like ATP Promax and Sandisk Extreme are. ATP aren't exactly "off brand". they are extremely high quality.

[maxusa]

ATP aren't exactly "off brand".

In my 13+ years of dealing with flash memory in computing, telecom, and imaging/video, I never ran across ATP Promax brand. These cards might be known in the specialty segment, but certainly not mainstream and, hence, not an easily recognizable brand in the U.S.

[Denwa]

off-brand (ôfbrnd, f-)
adj.
Of or being a product sold inexpensively under a relatively unfamiliar brand name and often considered inferior to better known brands.

I would not call ATP Promax "off brand".

http://www.atpinc.com/p2-4a.php?sn=00000185

ATP ProMax® SDHC cards follow the ATP tradition of industry leading durability and build quality. Designed for the most extreme interpretations of mobility, they are built with ample protection from water, dust, ESD (Electro-Static Discharge), and an extreme storage temperature range of -40 and 85 degrees Celsius. These memory cards will withstand any abuse your device can and more!

[groveChuck]

Is there any probability formula for the more you use an SDHC card, the more likely an error/failure is,
vs
If you don't have an error/failure in the first X (10-20) uses, chances are greatly diminished you will have a problem later?

Any thoughts?

[maxusa]

I have seen many statistical studies of electronics parts and machinery that show much higher probability of failure (100~1000x) at the initial minutes/hours/days and then again approaching the end of useful life. Note that the end of life may be well beyond a warranty period. Basically, if a given device did not fail shortly after it is placed in service, then the chances are very high that it won't fail for a long while. Quality pros sometimes call this infant mortality. I imagine that NAND flash follows the same pattern. You may be able to find details in MTTF and similar studies or documentation. Many (smaller) vendors do not have their own labs and outsource MTTF/MTBF work.

[ullanta]

If I am paying $10 or $20 or even $40 for a card and billing the client for it, why not? It reduces the chances of memory failure, right? Or am I crazy?

I'd say that's not a good plan. Any card failures I have had have been apparent during testing; if they do well in an initial intensive test, they've been fine. The errors during that testing have not always been apparent when writing the cards. So I think you'd best at least test the cards. But for me, using known reliable cards trumps any benefit of using a new card for every project.

[groveChuck]

I have seen many statistical studies of electronics parts and machinery that show much higher probability of failure (100~1000x) at the initial minutes/hours/days and then again approaching the end of useful life. Note that the end of life may be well beyond a warranty period.

That's what I thought was the case. I'll see if I can find some actual studies.
Does SDHC have a typical life span, like P2 does? Thanks!

[maxusa]

Does SDHC have a typical life span, like P2 does?

Measurable main theoretical limit is the number of NAND block cell write cycles. It changes among flash manufacturers, technology, organization, controller algorythms, etc. Then we have factors that are difficult to predict such as storage and operating environment, human factor (handling), reenergizing frequency, etc. All things being equal, the P2 packaging is more durable (can withstand more insertions and rougher handling). A P2 card is a professionally packaged flash, whereas SD cards have light/consumer grade packaging where miniature size and affordability trumps many other requirements. Some SD card makers have ruggedized offerings such as sealed epoxy and/or reinforced casings. So a given SD card life span depends on usage and many other factors.

By the end of last decade, MLC NAND flash would typically sustain 5-10K write cycles. The latest MLC flash from Intel/Micron can hold up to 30K cycles. Over time, and with technological advances, flash becomes better, smaller, and cheaper. An old SD card, therefore, is unlikely to be able to sustain as many write cycles as a modern equivalent. Having said that, SD cards do require TLC (Pelican, anyone?), but the risks can be somewhat offset by following best practices and using professional name brands that typically carry lifetime warranty.

[seanwin]

Great post and advice, thanks barry

[taras4444]

Hey just a quick question, is there any major difference between sdhc cards and sdhc uhs-1 cards except for price? Because I currently have the lexar sdhc 32gb cards, and was going to buy another but found the following uhs-1 for a much cheaper price! And seeing as from what I've heard the uhs-1 is better and faster, it just doesnt seem to make sense why its nearly half the price! Should I go for it or am i missing a trick? The card link is the following:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lexar-32GB-P...4682553&sr=8-3 and the normal one is :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lexar-32GB-1...4682553&sr=8-5
Both are class 10 and everything :S Thanks for any advice.

[Babu]

I had Sandisk Class 6 cards and Sandisk uhs-1 cards. The uhs-1 cards format in mere seconds in the AF100 where as my sandisk class 6 format in minutes -____- How fast do your lexar 32's format in? If it's minutes then yes you'll see a difference upgrading the cards, if not then you won't notice any difference in the AF100.

[taras4444]

Awesome, so either way i might as well get the uhs-1 card, i cant believe its almost half the price! Are there any compatibility issues with it though, or should it work in most sd card holders on laptops etc? If so how do you find out if your sd card reader works for uhs1? (My sd card port doesnt mention uhs1)

[Babu]

I have no clue. I just pop it into my standard SDHC reader and go on editing.

[joshuajay]

Check Card message on Ag-af100

Ok So I feel a bit stupid, especially having read the opening thread. But I think I might have bought a counterfeit or dud card as when I put it in my Panasonic Ag-Af100 it says check card and won't let me record. Is there something I am missing, or have I just bought a crappy card. I'm afraid it was off e-bay.... it did only cost me £25 (for 64gb).... and it's made by a brand I've never heard of Busbi, who I am now going to Google. Any help for this newcomer greatly appreciated.