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    Originally posted by avro View Post
    p.s. and why i am at it how about 2' VF(like ex-3) so i do not have to use 3rd Party one - hate HDMI cable and other options on camera body.
    Because the EX3 doesn't have a VF. It has an LCD panel with a magnifier stuck on it. You could do the same thing with the AF100 if you wanted to; it's the same res as the EX3.
    ..
    The AU-EVA1 Book - The DVX200 Book - The UX180 & UX90 Book - Lighting For Film & TV - Sound For Film & TV

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      Originally posted by Barry_Green View Post
      Because the EX3 doesn't have a VF. It has an LCD panel with a magnifier stuck on it. You could do the same thing with the AF100 if you wanted to; it's the same res as the EX3.
      Yes you can-would it be something if in 2011 somebody designing large sensor camera understood one needs for focusing VF/magnifier. Oh my God-we need VON BRAUN for that kind of logical thinking.
      Don't take me wrong i understand it is great camera for $5000. . . but LARGE SENSOR camera especially MUST have VF! ZOOMS - GLASS ! I have been looking for past 10 years for LIGHT / Perfect PRO Video Camera. Instead i must carry my 7KG beast because of some basic shortcomings.

      I was to pick up my Panasonic camera 3 days ago in Sydney...
      For some reason they(Panasonic) sent cameras on Tuesday by TRUCK to Melbourne(10 hour drive)....then after urgently talking to my dealer(LEMAC) they on Wednesday "urgently" sent camera by TRUCK again(if i was in Somalia they would send it by CAMEL) back to Sydney-why not by overnight plane.?.

      That is kind of Logic i am dealing with in PRO VIDEO.
      I am very sorry for my sarcastic remarks.

      Kind Regards
      Jiri Vrozina
      p.s. cancelled my af100 yesterday
      Today is Saturday and Camera is not here......

      Comment


        heres something based on my shooting with the AF100
        20mm 1.7 is plenty wide. i actually prefer a 35mm more
        11-16 tokina is really wide

        fast wide is still missing but if youve got all fo the above, you're covered.

        Comment


          Originally posted by dcloud View Post
          heres something based on my shooting with the AF100
          20mm 1.7 is plenty wide. i actually prefer a 35mm more
          11-16 tokina is really wide

          fast wide is still missing but if youve got all fo the above, you're covered.

          good to hear, which version of the 11-16 2.8 do you have? canon/nikon?

          both have the clutch for manual focus without power if i recall?
          C100 / Aerial Shooter/Editor - NY/NJ

          My work, My equipment, My other whatnots...
          www.DarrenLevine.com

          Comment


            Originally posted by imdjay View Post
            good to hear, which version of the 11-16 2.8 do you have? canon/nikon?

            both have the clutch for manual focus without power if i recall?
            Well my Tokina 11-16 has no clutch, and it is less than a year old. (Canon)
            formerly know as grimepoch.

            Comment


              mines the nikon one. i have the nikon g - m43
              love this lens. i dont think canon mount has a aperture control though. it would be perfect with the birger ef mount though!

              on the 20mm, i thought most of the time it was wider than i needed. perfect for 2 shots or handheld shots. focus doesnt have hard stops though which is a bummer.
              35mm fits perfectly for portraits like hunter said.
              I tend to use my nikon 50mm 1.2 a lot . it works like a 100mm and with the distance between the camera and the subject, the DOF is actually manageable without worrying on my focus plane being too thin.

              Comment


                Originally posted by avro View Post
                PLS do Your research.....18-50mm t3.0 was Sigma redone...17-50mm t2.9 is NEW Cine Zoom.
                It has proper Cine Controls(iris,zoom,focul)...well made no plastic here.
                Stop mixing PHOTO zooms with Cinema ones.
                How do you know the 17-50 t2.9 isn't just a cinema version of the newer sigma 17-50 f2.8? I.e. Using basically the same glass? Obviously whoever is making it is better (or got better) at the mechanics than the first go around.

                And there isn't anything wrong with it - optically both of the sigmas are excellent.
                Save the Sharks
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                Red #206/Epic-X Stage2 and (sold my) Canon vDSLR. Need my epic, please. Canon EF, C/Y Zeiss and pentax 645 lenses. 10mm Arri/Zeiss T2.1 PL. Manufacturer of Underwater housing for REDONE - for sale or rent. 954.937.6600 aquavideo1 at yahoo.com

                Comment


                  Originally posted by aquavideo View Post
                  How do you know the 17-50 t2.9 isn't just a cinema version of the newer sigma 17-50 f2.8? I.e. Using basically the same glass? Obviously whoever is making it is better (or got better) at the mechanics than the first go around.

                  And there isn't anything wrong with it - optically both of the sigmas are excellent.
                  Because big JIM said so.

                  Comment


                    Originally Posted by Mitch Gross
                    It sure looks like they started with the same lens and had the mechanics made better, much as they did with the 300mm v. the Pro 300. Just a guess, but that likely would be why the profile is fairly similar and the size and weight are still in the same territory. Too bad the /i data goes away.

                    Not the same optics... much better.

                    Jim

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by dop16mm View Post

                      If you've been working with consumer cameras like the canon hv20 type the wide end is 6mm or 24mm in 4/3, again you can't go much wider without distortion.

                      All of the standard zooms in m4/3 start at 14mm which is already wider than any video camera you've ever used. Add the 7-14mm and it will blow your socks off. Yes at f4 it is a bit slow, but consider the pains we have gone through to shoot hv20 with no gain, f2 at maybe 100asa, that would be f4 at 400, if the cam is clean at 800 - 1600 it is a non issue, if so turn a light on.

                      On my 16mm kit the widest lens I have is 10mm and I've never had trouble getting a shot, that should have a FOV similar to the 20mm pancake, which at f1.7 should be more that fast enough to cover the dance at a wedding reception.

                      If You've ever read American Cinematographer Magazine, you'll see that most every shot in every movie you see is 25mm or longer. 18mm is typically the widest standard lens. The prime kits do go down to 12mm but lenses that wide are a speciality item. 10mm on a movie really stands out, there are only a handful of shots in Hollywood history that have used it, and if you saw it, you knew it.
                      Thanks for posting this.

                      I am using an HV30, looking to get a new cam, and I was comparing everything to the HV30, but without taking these realistic conversions into consideration.

                      I was shooting a lot of stuff at 2.8 on the HV30 to avoid gain which creates noise, so f4 sounded really slow to me.

                      For really, really low light shots outdoors at night, I can get a fast lens, and even if it's not that wide I can just back the hell up with my feet. For indoors where you can't always back up, I'm going to have some lights so it shouldn't be a problem.

                      Here's my picks for the AF100.

                      Tokina 11-16mm F2.8 for the wide shots.




                      Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 (takes over after 16mm).



                      Sigma 30mm f/1.4 (for the really low light shots).


                      Am I missing anything?
                      Last edited by Gillvane; 01-15-2011, 10:10 AM.

                      Comment


                        Seriously, the only lens you need if you need wide angle on the GH2 or the AF100 is the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8. Since it is designed for DX sensors, the crop factor is not that much on the M43 sensor. At 11mm, the FOV is 14.7mm on the M43 chip which is wider than you will ever need. Plus it is f2.8 and under $600. Add a Novoflex or MTF Nikon adapter that can control the iris and you are set. The perfect, fast sharp wide with an quality adapter for under a grand is tough to beat. Yes, a grand is alot for a lens but it is cheaper than some of the other options and when you see the images, you will be stunned.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by shorty15 View Post
                          Seriously, the only lens you need if you need wide angle on the GH2 or the AF100 is the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8. Since it is designed for DX sensors, the crop factor is not that much on the M43 sensor. At 11mm, the FOV is 14.7mm on the M43 chip which is wider than you will ever need. Plus it is f2.8 and under $600. Add a Novoflex or MTF Nikon adapter that can control the iris and you are set. The perfect, fast sharp wide with an quality adapter for under a grand is tough to beat. Yes, a grand is alot for a lens but it is cheaper than some of the other options and when you see the images, you will be stunned.
                          Incorrect. The focal length is the focal length, period. No matter what your crop factor is. I have the Tokina 11-16 and the crop factor is a consistent measurement no matter what lens I put on there. The design for APS-C sensor size is about how large an image you can expect from the lens. As in, on a Full Frame, it vignettes at 11. At 15, the vignette was about gone.

                          So, 11mm in terms of FoV on the Tokina would be the same as a 22mm ROUGHLY on a full frame sensor.
                          formerly know as grimepoch.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Rick Burnett View Post
                            Incorrect. The focal length is the focal length, period. No matter what your crop factor is. I have the Tokina 11-16 and the crop factor is a consistent measurement no matter what lens I put on there. The design for APS-C sensor size is about how large an image you can expect from the lens. As in, on a Full Frame, it vignettes at 11. At 15, the vignette was about gone.

                            So, 11mm in terms of FoV on the Tokina would be the same as a 22mm ROUGHLY on a full frame sensor.
                            I don't get this. I understand that the focal length is not changing and that the MFT sensor is cropping the image. The Tokina is designed for a DX sized sensor which is only a little larger than the MFT sensor. Lets say I have a an 11mm lens designed for a full frame sensor. One an AF100 that lens would have the field of view of a 22mm lens on a full frame camera because of the 2x crop factor of the MFT chip. The tokina is designed to cover a smaller sensor.

                            Are you saying that the Tokina 11-16 will have the same field of view as a 22-32 designed to cover a full frame sensor? Basically, as I understand it, the 11-16 is wider on a MFT chip than a 11-16 designed to cover a full frame chip. Is this incorrect?

                            This aplication is really throwing me off: http://www.abelcine.com/fov/

                            Basically, all I want to know is: On a MFT chip like the GH2 and AF100, will the Tokina 11-16 at it's widest (11mm), have the field of view of a (1) 14.7mm full frame 35 lens or a (2) 22mm full frame 35 lens.

                            Even if it is a 22mm full frame fov on the Af100, that is still very wide and at f2.8, the Tokina is a beast.

                            I have also been doing research into Nikon to MFT adapters with iris control. I hear that the Novoflex is good but has some problems with the Tokina lens and can change the iris if you move the lens a little since there is some play in the mount. The hear the adaptimax is the best but I can't imagine shelling out $450 for it. I know mike tapa makes one as well but it is also very very pricy. I am looking for a cheap mount that still has enough quality to get the job done, give me precise control over the iris of the Tokina and focus to infinity.

                            I hear that ciecio7 on ebay made one similar to the adaptimax with a thumbscrew but that seems to have been discontinued.

                            My two remaining options are:

                            http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapt...826918&sr=1-73

                            http://www.amazon.com/RAINBOWIMAGING.../ref=pd_cp_p_1

                            Any suggestions? I'm leaning towards the fotodiox one but I have not heard much about it.

                            I know that you get what you pay for but seriously, some of these mounts cost almost as much as the Tokina itself.
                            Last edited by shorty15; 03-10-2011, 11:03 PM.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by shorty15 View Post

                              Are you saying that the Tokina 11-16 will have the same field of view as a 22-32 designed to cover a full frame sensor? Basically, as I understand it, the 11-16 is wider on a MFT chip than a 11-16 designed to cover a full frame chip. Is this incorrect?

                              This aplication is really throwing me off: http://www.abelcine.com/fov/

                              Basically, all I want to know is: On a MFT chip like the GH2 and AF100, will the Tokina 11-16 at it's widest (11mm), have the field of view of a (1) 14.7mm full frame 35 lens or a (2) 22mm full frame 35 lens.
                              In essence.... YES. BUT. OK. This gets confusing.... Damn the 5DmkII and its chip size..... ;)

                              An 11mm lens is a 11mm lens. The way to think about isnt what will it look like on XYZ chip size, think about it as angle of view.

                              Lets say your shot needs a 100 degree field of view angle measured horizontally. This is VERY wide. break out a protractor and measure it. Its approximatly a 10 or 11 mm on a S35 film plane.

                              So, depending on youre sensor, you may need different lenses to achieve a 100 horizontally measured angle of view. On a photographic Full frame you need a 16mm Lens. On S35 you need an 11mm, on AF100-M4/3 you need around a 9mm.

                              Think in terms of field of view. Not lens mm. it makes your life easier, cause then with a simple chart, like in the ASC manual, you can determine what lens you need.
                              Cinematographer
                              Sigma Pro

                              www.timurcivan.com 917-589-4424

                              Comment


                                As Timur said, the real issue is the angle of view. Many people get confused and think that 11mm focal length is different if the lens is designed for a different sensor size (as in the DX size) but this is not the case. an 11mm lens designed for Full Frame and an 11mm lens designed for DX will show the exact same FoV on a DX sensor. The problem with a DX lens is that you cannot use most of them on a Full frame as they vignette or have serious problems at the edges with chromatic abberation, etc.

                                So if the crop factor is 2.0 between Full Frame and m4/3, then the answer is yes, the AF100 will behave like a 22mm lens on the 5D.

                                All that said, I agree with you that the 11mm is PLENTY wide for my 7D and AF100, and at F2.8 it is pretty fast. For any wider, the 7mm is always available, but from what I have seen shot with it, the perspective distortion is too much for most of the things I do.
                                formerly know as grimepoch.

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