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Adventures in Classic Digtial Video Cameras

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    Adventures in Classic Digtial Video Cameras

    This is it, the one we’ve all been waiting for! Testing old cameras that have legendary reputations against the ones that just couldn’t grab our hearts no matter what the specs said!


    The main reason for doing this camera shootout, would be to better understand what it is that makes a camera good.


    We can’t do this alone, so we need any one who is interested to help. Cameras, lenses, studios, lights, time! Not to mention the prep work and figuring out the best way to make a meaningful study of these cameras.

    Any thoughts, write them here.

    #2
    The challenge.

    What is objectively “good”? Any camera can look good with the right person behind it. That makes it difficult to understand why one camera is better than anothee with a limited number of setups.

    Cameras are constantly changing and hopefully getting better. Comparing okder cameras to newer ones is not exactly necessary, and runs the risk of taking away that wistful nostalgia.

    So, how do we create a situation that allows us to get through a day, striving for some objectivity and ending up with a better understanding of what makes a good image?

    Comment


      #3
      How old are you defining as classic?!

      I'm curious to see if there is any purpose to returning to older digital cameras. I may have some nostalgia for the experience at the time of running around with a DVX100 or an XL1, but watching those clips now, the image is hardly something I'd want to return to. Same thing with all of the music videos I shot on 5D's...it's a look but not exactly "classic".

      For me, the true nostalgia on the video side of things is for tube cameras (pre mid-80's). Have yet to see that look properly re-created with a plug-in.
      Charles Papert
      charlespapert.com

      Comment


        #4
        I wouldn't know how to make such comparisons "fair" - I really don't think such is possible :/

        Coincidentally, this past summer we shot a project with all the types of cameras mentioned in this thread so far - Panasonic HDX900, RCA Vidicon tube camera (I think CC-001 or CC-02 but don't remember exact model), along with a modern state of the art Reds with both modern and vintage glass. The contrasts are quite entertaining in the piece, it's one of the funnest projects I've done in a while and the vintage equipment was a big part of that - although Michael Keaton and Owen Wilson helped, those guys are great.

        https://www.ifc.com/shows/documentar...-valley-part-1
        Last edited by nothing; 03-24-2019, 09:25 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          While i have never shot with tube, i love the look! The light trails are pretty fantastic.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by nothing View Post
            I wouldn't know how to make such comparisons "fair" - I really don't think such is possible :/

            Coincidentally, this past summer we shot a project with all the types of cameras mentioned in this thread so far - Panasonic HDX900, RCA Vidicon tube camera (I think CC-001 or CC-02 but don't remember exact model), along with a modern state of the art Reds with both modern and vintage glass. The contrasts are quite entertaining in the piece, it's one of the funnest projects I've done in a while and the vintage equipment was a big part of that.

            https://www.ifc.com/shows/documentar...-valley-part-1
            Ha! That is awesome!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by nothing View Post
              I wouldn't know how to make such comparisons "fair" - I really don't think such is possible :/

              Coincidentally, this past summer we shot a project with all the types of cameras mentioned in this thread so far - Panasonic HDX900, RCA Vidicon tube camera (I think CC-001 or CC-02 but don't remember exact model), along with a modern state of the art Reds with both modern and vintage glass. The contrasts are quite entertaining in the piece, it's one of the funnest projects I've done in a while and the vintage equipment was a big part of that.

              https://www.ifc.com/shows/documentar...-valley-part-1
              Sounds like fun working with so much old gear. Still have old Sony and Canon handycams (and a 'really nice' JVC S-VHS player haha).

              The subject matter kind of reminds of this:


              Which shows that one doesn't need a guru (or to be part of any organized collective in order to better understand themselves and to find meaning in life). At the same time, the philosophical teachings including meditation, yoga, and eating real organic food are useful tools in becoming self-aware and healing oneself and others. Most important: thinking for oneself and doing deep research to find the truth, wherever it leads, vs. blindly listening to what appear to be gurus, experts, or authority figures or sources. After learning so much they've been told their entire lives isn't true, the internet and social media have really helped people learn the tools to think and find the truth for themselves.

              James, here's an old Pansonic TM700 I tried to make look useful. Even with a decent mic to try to 'trick the brain' into thinking the image was better, I think the 80D is as far back as I'd go for a useful camera (except for perhaps brief retro shots):

              Footage is treated- doesn't look like that coming out of the camera.

              Comment


                #8
                Very nice microphone!


                Oof! I never knew what to do with the handy cam shape. I find the dslr to be a great improvement, sadly the mirrorless cameras are again insufferably bad ergonomics that make me almost miss the handycam days!

                I’ll have to watch again with good headphones and see how well the brain trick worked.
                Last edited by James0b57; 03-22-2019, 09:02 PM.

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                  #9
                  @nothing

                  What was your take away using multiple camera systems and tech?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by James0b57 View Post
                    @nothing

                    What was your take away using multiple camera systems and tech?
                    The main takeaway is that there is a reason we don't use the old stuff more, it really can't do anything that the new stuff can't do other than a realistic portrayal of the flaws inherent in each system. That's exactly why we used the old stuff, for the flaws that can't be reproduced perfectly in post, so it worked well for us, but the lack of resolution on all the old stuff was so very apparent and would have been an immediate show-stopper for any other use - I had almost forgotten how soft and blurry DV was. That and the utter lack of light sensitivity of the tube camera were rather astonishing given what we are accustomed to today.

                    With all the pixel-peeping done around here, I think many forget just how good we have it these days. I'm heading into a weeklong pilot with an Alexa Mini and I guarantee the old gear won't cross my mind once ;)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I occasionally miss the abstract look of standard definition cameras, and the smear of analogue televisions.

                      There was a quality to that I began to appreciate. It allowed for composing almost entirely with blocks of color and contrast.

                      I’ve always found HD to be my least favorite resolution. Has a false detail look to it. The compromised resolution. Niether abstract, nor truly detailed, it is a resolution for practicality.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Agreed with "nothing" on the lack of sensitivity of the tube cameras. I had to blast the studio with big guns to be able to get enough exposure (just) for this one:

                        http://www.cc.com/video-clips/ll9zy0...funky-nonsense
                        Charles Papert
                        charlespapert.com

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by CharlesPapert View Post
                          Agreed with "nothing" on the lack of sensitivity of the tube cameras. I had to blast the studio with big guns to be able to get enough exposure (just) for this one:

                          http://www.cc.com/video-clips/ll9zy0...funky-nonsense
                          The irony is we have cool running high output lights now, but also super sensitive cameras with a lot of latitude.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            That clip is f’ing amazing!

                            Comment


                              #15

                              A


                              B


                              C

                              Three generations of cheap digital video.

                              Video quality aside, anyone like have a favorite set? A,B, or C?
                              Last edited by James0b57; 03-24-2019, 10:13 PM.

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