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    #61
    Originally posted by Mitch Gross View Post

    Would love to hear just how you calculated this nonsense.

    The Orion 300 FS is doing just fine on the market, thank you very much. To be quite frank the reason we're holding a big Black Friday promotion is because we're a new brand and it's a lot cheaper to offer an attention-grabbing sale than to spend $$$ on all the equivalent marketing this brings to help get our product noticed. Even if we lose money on every sale it's still worth it for us and boy is it a great value for the people who buy in.

    I have nothing against Godox and its products, but the Orion 300 FS is a vastly more advanced and complex light with far greater performance. I understand that you don't care about extreme colors and have little use outside of a 5500K output, but the Prolycht Hyperlight Color Engine delivers better performance even at this singular setting. By using six different color emitters that divide the spectrum into separate zones, the Orion 300 FS offers better color rendition across the visible light spectrum compared to a mono-color, bi-color or RGBW type LED light. This is especially true in the amber tones of subcutaneous scattering of light on various skintones and in the cyan range of light sky. And if you ever need to light something at 5500K and then adjust it slightly because another lamp is a touch magenta or the daylight streaming in the window has a bit extra yellow in it, the Color Picker function in the Orion 300 FS can instantly match the light to the various imperfect light sources of the real world. Nothing against Godux but there's no product from that company that can do anything like this.

    So please let me know how the Orion 300 FS is only 10% better than a basic cheap light?
    I dont want this to become personal

    I dont deny any of the amazing tech being good, being how it is described, et al.

    Now I guess the colour rendition and ouput when set at 'interview' settings.. are about 10% better than the godox..

    Hense, it is, for interviews around, 80% of the bread and butter of paid lit video work, about 10% better.

    Its like driving a Ferrari to the shops - one doesnt really get to feel how much better it is than the Toyota Yaris.

    On the track for sure the Ferrari is better.

    There is a thing (99%?) just want to see out of the window while we shoot the MD chatting.. and 1% are doing deep meaningful colour driven cinematography (fair play to them)

    I hope the price, quantity produced, and abilities of the tool are correctly tuned to serve the appropriate market.

    A 1/3 price drop does not indicate that and could lead to upsetting the loyal customer base.

    Id so much prefer seeing the development of daylight LED in the 1.8k range that were affordable and had good build and service.

    ----

    Update
    Ive just seen a 200 drop on my recent Apture purchase.. it just fooking annoys me. The dealer didnt tip me to hold on a week or two they just robbed me of 200. Does that build my confidence in that dealer and that manufacturer? No bloody way. Any time im after thier product Ill striaght up demand a 10% discount. They showed the cards in thier hand.

    Yep I see value in clearing stock, boosting cash flow and other things might get one through a quiet january but that is a bit sad for functioning businesses. I usually charge more in the holiday season.


    Last edited by morgan_moore; 11-26-2021, 07:26 AM.
    http://www.sammorganmoore.com View my feature Film

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      #62
      Ive just has a look at arri, matthews, gripfactorymunich, chapmn leonard I cant see any discounting. It talks to me.
      http://www.sammorganmoore.com View my feature Film

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        #63
        Originally posted by NorBro View Post



        Just a few hours later that same 18TB drive is now $300 in the DZ, so only an additional $102 for an extra 6TB of space compared to the 12TB being sold a few hours earlier!

        https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ktop_18tb.html
        That’s one of the double edged sword/annoying things about this time of year. You can get great deals, but they fluctuate so much and what you thought was a good deal yesterday or even a few hours ago, makes you feel like a chump, now.

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          #64
          Originally posted by morgan_moore View Post
          Ive just has a look at arri, matthews, gripfactorymunich, chapmn leonard I cant see any discounting. It talks to me.
          Following what Mitch said, those guys aren’t the ‘new kids on the block’ that need attention. But on the flip side, I’ve seen major players do similar, to try to capture the market, and it worked. Rewind the clock about 10 years or so and Panasonic cut the price of their P2 VariCams in half with a “trade-in”. Those cameras became hugely popular in the market. And they’re still around and making TV today.

          Now, would I be ticked off if I just bought two lights last week and all of a sudden today the manufacturer is giving away a third one for free(or selling something for less)? You’re damn straight I would be. And in instances like that, I’d reach out to my dealer and ask for the offer(whatever it is) to be extended to me. And if it wasn’t, I’d return the purchase, unless I was locked into some type of special order/no returns deal.

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            #65
            Well Ive made a note to the dealer.

            Yep I can see there are strategic places to 'buy' market share, dump stock and other things - I dont know any organisations personal circumstances. I just think being involved in black friday is probably not the time or place to be buying that share.

            BF seems like people are clearing unwanted overstock and Mitchs light company should not be part of that game. It cheapens.

            It just makes you look like you are selling ti YT heads not people working production budgets.

            Attached Files
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              #66
              Too much competition and not enough sales.

              It is a brutal, oversaturated, overhyped industry.

              Everything made by everyone is the latest and greatest until next month...

              Although I won't say one product is a percentage of another, I would agree that pretty much everyone besides the 1% could likely get by with much less for their work.

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                #67
                I feel like the video gear sales are much more substantial this year than the household goods sales I'm seeing. And practically none of the household product categories that I put on my shopping list are discounted for black friday
                www.VideoAbe.com

                "If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech." - Noam Chomsky

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                  #68
                  Originally posted by ahalpert View Post
                  I feel like the video gear sales are much more substantial this year than the household goods sales I'm seeing. And practically none of the household product categories that I put on my shopping list are discounted for black friday
                  Household goods? As in, the prolycht 300 FS desk lamp?
                  robnortondp.com

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                    #69
                    Ah, another Bleak Friday

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                      #70
                      Originally posted by morgan_moore View Post

                      Ive just seen a 200 drop on my recent Apture purchase.. it just fooking annoys me. The dealer didnt tip me to hold on a week or two they just robbed me of 200. Does that build my confidence in that dealer and that manufacturer? No bloody way. Any time im after thier product Ill striaght up demand a 10% discount.

                      It pays to have a good dialogue with your dealer.

                      I nearly always ask for a best price quote. They are always happy to oblige.

                      They also give me the heads up on upcoming deals.
                      "There is nothing permanent except change."
                      Heraclitus

                      www.liamhall.net
                      TWITTER: @WordsbyLiam
                      INSTAGRAM: @picsbyliam

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                        #71
                        I took down the FB post and have emailed them to try and not publicaly slag them off. Yep lesson learned to not buy online. I thought those ap600 lights were in short supply as in and out of stock.. and hay presto ... in stock everywhere with 200 knocked off..!

                        BTW do you have a fav in the UK? Im off productiongear and cvp

                        CVP think this is an arri 2.5in grip head.. wheras any old fool knows it is 4in matthews
                        Attached Files
                        http://www.sammorganmoore.com View my feature Film

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                          #72
                          Originally posted by morgan_moore View Post
                          I took down the FB post and have emailed them to try and not publicaly slag them off. Yep lesson learned to not buy online. I thought those ap600 lights were in short supply as in and out of stock.. and hay presto ... in stock everywhere with 200 knocked off..!

                          BTW do you have a fav in the UK? Im off productiongear and cvp

                          CVP think this is an arri 2.5in grip head.. wheras any old fool knows it is 4in matthews
                          ProAV are nearby to where I live. I've used them pretty much since they started 20 odd years ago as they always give me good service.
                          "There is nothing permanent except change."
                          Heraclitus

                          www.liamhall.net
                          TWITTER: @WordsbyLiam
                          INSTAGRAM: @picsbyliam

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                            #73
                            Originally posted by morgan_moore View Post

                            I dont want this to become personal

                            I dont deny any of the amazing tech being good, being how it is described, et al.

                            Now I guess the colour rendition and ouput when set at 'interview' settings.. are about 10% better than the godox..

                            Hense, it is, for interviews around, 80% of the bread and butter of paid lit video work, about 10% better.

                            Its like driving a Ferrari to the shops - one doesnt really get to feel how much better it is than the Toyota Yaris.

                            On the track for sure the Ferrari is better.

                            There is a thing (99%?) just want to see out of the window while we shoot the MD chatting.. and 1% are doing deep meaningful colour driven cinematography (fair play to them)

                            I hope the price, quantity produced, and abilities of the tool are correctly tuned to serve the appropriate market.

                            A 1/3 price drop does not indicate that and could lead to upsetting the loyal customer base.

                            Id so much prefer seeing the development of daylight LED in the 1.8k range that were affordable and had good build and service.

                            ----

                            Update
                            Ive just seen a 200 drop on my recent Apture purchase.. it just fooking annoys me. The dealer didnt tip me to hold on a week or two they just robbed me of 200. Does that build my confidence in that dealer and that manufacturer? No bloody way. Any time im after thier product Ill striaght up demand a 10% discount. They showed the cards in thier hand.

                            Yep I see value in clearing stock, boosting cash flow and other things might get one through a quiet january but that is a bit sad for functioning businesses. I usually charge more in the holiday season.

                            You have a funny way of not making things personal. :-)

                            "Now I guess the colour rendition and ouput when set at 'interview' settings.. are about 10% better than the godox.."
                            That's about as random a bit of calculation as I can imagine. For some people the difference can mean all the world. It can mean the person looks healthier, has better flesh tones, after color correction in post has a shirt that is the correct color when the skin is correct, doesn't have magenta in the highlights, etc., on and on. Perhaps for your work the differences are too minor. But for others the differences can be crucial. The most common response I've heard from those testing the light is that they were surprised at just how much of a difference it gave them. Sometimes you don't know what you're missing until it is shown to you.

                            Once again, I will note that our reason for the huge Black Friday sale is to garner attention. We are a new, small brand and we simply don't have the marketing budget to plaster the internet all over to the level some of our competitors do. So we needed a way to make an impact and this is what we chose. It's getting us a lot of attention and even if we lose moeny with every light sold under this promotion it is still worth it as we are getting a lot of notie and a lot of people are asking to test out the light, which is al we ask because so many love it once they try it.

                            If someone had purchased multiple Orions just before this offer and contacted me then of course we would make this right with them. In fact this has happened and we are. We are a professional industry company not a consumer brand and our relationships with our clients is paramount to us. It's never about the single sale it is about the ongoing relationship and we would certainly want clients to be happy with their purchases with us and want to come back for more. We're looking at the long road here.
                            Mitch Gross
                            Prolycht Lighting
                            NYC

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                              #74
                              Originally posted by Mitch Gross View Post
                              Perhaps for your work the differences are too minor

                              Thats personal! Im talking about what I percieve in the lower end video world (the big market of fx6 buyers, not arri LF renters) is that people seem OK with sub $1k lights and the rental rates support that.

                              My perceptions of 'the business' dont always match my own visual concepts - hell I just bought a tungsten fixture!
                              https://www.instagram.com/p/CWQkedxq..._web_copy_link

                              I get how sometimes (eg 300 f4 vs 300 2.8, canon 15-85 5.6 vs 17-120 cine) , whatever, the extra difference puts an order of magnitude on the price.

                              I hope it works out for you as I look forward to such nice lights hitting a used market.. that I can afford


                              http://www.sammorganmoore.com View my feature Film

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                                #75
                                From the aforementioned cheaper video world… Intellytech had some decent BF discounts that I believe are still ongoing. I’ve really taken to their X-100 focusing COBs, and the newer light cloths are fortunately less spaghetti than some similar solutions. They’re mighty good for travel kit, unlike [insert about every other COB and modifier combo here].

                                Notable downside is they don’t have a remote app (but then also don’t demand a ton of personal info and account just to change the intensity on a damned light). They are available with a dedicated remote that’s a bit clunky, but workable.

                                Pudgy bearded camera guy
                                http://mcbob.tv

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