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    GH5 How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?

    Wondering with all of the low cost APS-C and FF camera options - how interested are you in the GH6 at all anymore?

    The body/size weight advantage is hardly a thing now. Spec wise, thereís a limit to what they can do to woo us - m43 had an advantage of high resolution and bitrates with the smaller sensor trade off previously. But now weíve got 422 10-bit 4k60p everywhere, and many donít need more resolution, stronger codec, higher FPS.

    So, are you still interested much in a next generation, and if so why?

    Iím on the edge... but I think I am, primarily because of the small lightweight lenses which are simply a dream to travel with and I appreciate the lightweight body. Iíd also be taken by internal 4k120p in 10-bit 422 and internal ProRes RAW or something to that effect. Or built in electronic VND.


    #2
    M43 has advantages (more DOF, faster RS for example), but not the advantages I need.

    I have a GH2, GH4 and GH5, but I always bought them for readout/processing/codec/framerates. Full-frame cameras have achieved parity or surpassed the GH5 and have a massive light sensitivity advantage and usually a dynamic range advantage as well.

    I bought an S1 when I needed a low-light beast but sold it this year and bought an A7SIII for AF and no-crop 4k60p. I am very, very happy with the A7SIII so far.

    So, personally, I have no interest in what I predict a GH5 could offer.

    What would be really cool would be a M43 ENG lens with a big range and a nice servo for a good price and a manageable weight. That would make it enticing to buy a camera to accommodate the lens for doc/eng shooting, although it would preferably be a proper video camera format camera and not a mirrorless. But such a lens could pull me back to M43.
    www.VideoAbe.com

    "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." -Harvey

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      #3
      I have a bunch of Panasonic M43 lenses, so it would be pricey for me to switch to an APS-C or full-frame camera. Those other cameras (and their lenses) are also heavier, and I occasionally handhold stuff. The weight is particularly important for stabilizer/gimbal shooting, and the smaller GH5 works well there. As for what a GH6 could have that might make me snap one up... 4K120fps (or 4K180fps!) internally would be excellent. 8K shooting would be a plus, especially the ability to do 8K timelapse videos. (Anyone who has not used the GH5 to make a 4K timelapse is missing out on one of the camera's best features!) Yeah, I can't show 8K video in many places, but I can always downscale it to 4K and preserve the quality of the original.

      As ahalpert said, a M43 servo-zoom lens (with smooth manual focus) would be excellent for documentary and cinema work. Even a 5x zoom would work for that sort of use, but I wouldn't complain about a 10x lens -- if the price was reasonable.

      If the GH6 could do internal MPEG5 8K/30fps 4:2:2 10-bit recording at 400Mbps, the world would definitely sit up and take notice. Amazon has 128GB V90 SD cards for as little as $60, so the media is out there. Although a 128GB card is a little small for 400Mbps recording.
      Last edited by BobKo; 10-18-2020, 07:27 AM.

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        #4
        Originally posted by BobKo View Post
        I have a bunch of Panasonic M43 lenses, so it would be pricey for me to switch to an APS-C or full-frame camera. Those other cameras (and their lenses) are also heavier, and I occasionally handhold stuff. The weight is particularly important for stabilizer/gimbal shooting, and the smaller GH5 works well there. As for what a GH6 could have that might make me snap one up... 4K120fps (or 4K180fps!) internally would be excellent. 8K shooting would be a plus, especially the ability to do 8K timelapse videos. (Anyone who has not used the GH5 to make a 4K timelapse is missing out on one of the camera's best features!) Yeah, I can't show 8K video in many places, but I can always downscale it to 4K and preserve the quality of the original.

        As ahalpert said, a M43 servo-zoom lens (with smooth manual focus) would be excellent for documentary and cinema work. Even a 5x zoom would work for that sort of use, but I wouldn't complain about a 10x lens -- if the price was reasonable.

        If the GH6 could do internal MPEG5 8K/30fps 4:2:2 10-bit recording at 400Mbps, the world would definitely sit up and take notice. Amazon has 128GB V90 SD cards for as little as $60, so the media is out there. Although a 128GB card is a little small for 400Mbps recording.
        The feature needed is the sensitivity and color of the GH5s combined with IBIS. I don't think a GH6 will happen.

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          #5
          I love the GH5 and 5S and am completely addicted to the reach I can get with a 600 mm lens from MFT. I will be first in line when a GH6 is announced. BobKo offered a pretty nice list of expected improvements.
          www.markoconnell.org

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            #6
            I think they better hurry if they are going to release one. I thought for sure we would have a GH6 announced to counter the R5 & a7SIII but no. I am interested in easy to use cameras with a lot of features. That is the GH5. If they just matched all of the features of the a7SIII at a lower price I think a lot of folks like me would stay with Panasonic. Basically a Gh5s with IBIS and some more color science improvements and full V-LOG. I don't need to see in the dark, but I would want clean ISO 6400. Panasonic must have given up. Maybe they know their AF is not up to par and are waiting until it is?

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              #7
              It's funny how the GH5 with so many great features and improvements (IBIS, 10bit internal, 4k 60, no time limits or over heating, light inexpensive lenses, good battery life) only after a few years is "undesirable".

              The problem is its major weakness might not be fixable:
              1. Low light: due to the sensor size limitations combined with an aspect ratio for photography, resulting in further wasting an already smaller sensor.
              2. Auto Focus: Some have speculated it's not possible or economically feasible to change to phase detect due to the sensor tech they use.
              3. Dead end: Feels like Panasonic might not even make a GH6 and if they do, it will be last GH because the industry is moving to full frame. Why would you want to invest in a system with glass that is about to be phased out? Likewise it doesn't make sense for Panasonic to invest more R&D with a camera without a future?

              That being said it doesn't matter whether a camera is desirable as long as it satisfies your needs. If you don't film in low light, shallow dof is undesirable, and don't need or use continue af then this camera will be desirable by the only person that matters You and your clients.
              Last edited by Peter C.; 10-18-2020, 07:04 PM.

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                #8
                I think M4/3rds has some advantages that Panasonic did not exploit. The a7S III from a technical point of view is quite amazing giving its huge sensor in comparison to the M4/3rds sensor. A GH6 should have an edge in the faster frame rates, rolling shutter and overall camera capabilities, but Panasonic has not kept up. Sony has 4k120 and 1080p240 with a minimal crop on a FF sensor and the GH series has kind of mushy 180p. They really should be pushing 1080p480 that is just ok and 1080p240 that is excellent. Some of the best IBIS in the business along with low cost lenses and solid heat management make the GH cameras great tools but they are a bit limited in DR and as stated, the AF is unreliable at times. I want to stay but Panasonic is going to lose me to Sony because they just do not have a product on the market.

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                  #9
                  I'd love to see a proper MFT camcorder.

                  I feel like it's something Panasonic would try (and not S or C).

                  DVX300, if you will.

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                    #10
                    The problem for Panasonic is that it can't be in the S5 neighborhood and, if priced at ~ $1,200-$1,500, they'd have to heavily cripple it.

                    An ILC cinema/AF-101 style camera might work but they just released that MFT box for $2,000. Meanwhile, Pocket 4K is $1,300 and Z Cam E2C is $800 and each records Raw internally. Some form of auto focus might come in handy, but that's the area verboten for Panasonic.

                    Meanwhile Fuji has a new APS-C model for $1,000, which seems a pretty decent package for hybrid shooters not dismissive of a stylized baked-in look.

                    And that squeezes GH-6 out of a lot of niches. The new buyers have plenty of alternatives. Owners of the MFT glass could also look elsewhere. GH-6 was probably ready to go but ended up as S5 because the L-mount Alliance needs to have more product on the shelf.
                    Last edited by DLD; 10-19-2020, 06:55 AM. Reason: spelling.. urgh ...

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                      #11
                      The mirrorless space has become very crowded and competitive. You need to have a niche. Either aimed at professional photographers (Canon R5) or professional hybrid good at both video and photos (Sony A7iii) or budget cinema (Pocket 4k), and then there are numerous lower cost mirrorless. There is probably very little that could be significantly improved in the GH6 that would attract customers away from other choices.

                      If you look at this chart towards the bottom of this article you can see the decline in sales especially in the low end. The professional market looks to be the only area where there is potential for growth.
                      https://petapixel.com/2020/07/11/doe...n-photography/
                      Last edited by Peter C.; 10-18-2020, 09:44 PM.

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                        #12
                        Cameras need ND and 10bit and the option to buy a decent adult zoom lens for about $5k

                        Im convinced MFT can deliver this

                        Im interested when this happens - which it wont.

                        Panny cant even put an ND in the new small 'cinema camera'
                        http://www.sammorganmoore.com View my feature Film

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                          #13
                          You guys are all right, but if Panasonic put out a GH6 for $2,000 I would buy it. I would guess that many other GH5 owners would too. But only if it kept pace with features. Cameras that hit the mark tend to sell. It did not have to have 8k, just extend on the solid offering of the GH5 with improvements. I would think Panasonic knows just how close they are to these sales but some other overriding reason has taken over. These sales opportunities have a shelf life and the 'best by' date is approaching rapidly... Meaning once I leave the M4/3rds system it will be tough to get me back. It is kind of a shame.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Bassman2003 View Post
                            You guys are all right, but if Panasonic put out a GH6 for $2,000 I would buy it. I would guess that many other GH5 owners would too.
                            Why, because of lenses? That was the thing for me - I never bought any m43 lenses except a pancake. I just adapted and speedboosted the same Canon and Nikon mount lenses that I've used on all my cameras. I have no objection to adapting lenses unless you're trying to use autofocus. Then, aside from adapting EF to RF, you really want to use native lenses.

                            But sure, if someone's got a nice set of M43 zooms and Voigtlander primes, I could see it being hard to leave M43 behind.

                            I'm trying to be more practical and targeted buying E-mount lenses than I was buying EF lenses. I started with the sigma 24-70 which I got on sale for $1k. Then on Prime Day I bought a samyang f/1.4 35 and 85 and an f/2.8 18 with lens dock for about $1120 plus tax for all 3. I could get a tamron 70-180 for about $1k but I'll wait to get it on sale for less. Then maybe maybe I might get a tamron 28-200 for $700ish. So you're looking at basically all the lenses I would need for less than $4000. And just keep using my Laowa 12mm for ultra wide since its MF only anyway.

                            Which is all just to say that with high quality third-party lens options, it's not that expensive to buy into a new system. L and RF mount dont yet have as many options available as E mount, but they will. There are really nice f/1.8 lenses that are even cheaper.

                            So, I feel like having a small lens/camera rig is the main draw of M43, and also having more DOF. (Readout speed too, but the A7SIII has an 8ms RS.) If a GH6 comes out at the same price as or higher than an S5, I feel like that's a hard sell.
                            Last edited by ahalpert; 10-19-2020, 06:25 AM.
                            www.VideoAbe.com

                            "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." -Harvey

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Peter C. View Post
                              The mirrorless space has become very crowded and competitive. You need to have a niche....
                              That isn't decided by any given company. Petapixel presumes this is a competitive market. Which it is not.

                              Its sales totals are also behind the times, since an automatic rebound to even the pathetic 2019 numbers ought not be expected. In the US, where Apple dominates, the iPhone 12 iterations basically render any amateur ILC model worthless. Across the globe, where Samsung and Huawei have a large share of the market, the situation is even worse.

                              CIPA gives the August ILC shipments at ~ 400,000 units worldwide. In a rapidly shrinking market, many a model is culled. With Olympus mostly out, there is no second partner in the MFT business. Which doesn't bode well for GH-6.

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