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    Originally posted by Peter C. View Post
    I'm not sure many people demanding unlimited 4k/120.
    I didn't demand it at all. Then I got it and started using it all the time. Slow and dreamy - useful, yes. (I actually tend to use it to film action that's already slow rather than fast action.) But also - 40% (60fps) isn't that slow. Most things that could go 40% could go 20%, or at least the option is nice. But the other place it's been a massive boon for me is slider-type shots on gimbal. So, details of a static object. I was never steady enough with a gimbal to pull off those shots without a slider. But at 120fps, I don't have to be. The wavering of the camera is slowed down enough that it's unnoticeable. And now I get away without using a slider almost all the time, which means I can shoot much faster and pull more complex moves.
    www.AbeFilms.com

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      Originally posted by Peter C. View Post
      I'm not sure many people demanding unlimited 4k/120. Maybe for weddings where you want to film slow and dreamy all day but even that you're not filming continuously. I think great AF and low light performance has more applications. The majority of low budget event work is in existing light, shot solo and AF tacking is a great help in those situations. I do agree that there is great value in a camera that is dependable, unlimited record time, doesn't over heat or crop.

      Like I said before, the GH6 probably gets enough sales to exist for many years. The process of a company leaving the business or selling their camera division takes decades. Look how long it took Olympus to go under and aren't they still selling cameras under another name. Or look at all the missteps Nikon has made.
      I think you may be assuming a 24p workflow but keep in mind some consider 60p to be normal motion and in that case 120p is only 2x slow motion. While 24p users may not need unlimited 120p the reality is most FF cameras can barely manage 60p right now and 120p is just not possible at all. Even for a few minutes.

      I agree low light and AF are nice to have. That’s why I bought a R6 despite its many flaws. I would much prefer a GH6 have those but we have to be realistic that a hybrid m43 will never be amazing in low light. In the case of the P4k or GH5S yes they can be very good but then they suck for stills.

      the AF thing is what it is. Panasonic could make it better and they do in fact get better each time. 60p on the latest Panasonic bodies and firmware is actually really good now. The faster readout helps a ton. Eventually 24p will get better. To be fair DPAF has its own flaws as well. When it comes to a hybrid camera I wouldn’t say one AF is superior over the other. Contrast detect is more accurate but it takes longer and it can hint. Works exceptionally well for stills that are slower moving or don’t move at all. Still life, portraits, landscape and so forth. Phase detect works better for fast moving subjects or of course video. Panasonic is sticking to its hybrid roots and providing AF that works very well for stills as well as video under a lot of different aperture and lighting conditions. Phase detect can sometimes not work when the iris is closed a lot. For example even Tony Northrop reviews Canon phase detect as not working very well on some primes when stopped down to f5.6 or smaller. That means phase detect really works best under certain conditions and then kind of falls apart. Contrast has many of the same flaws and benefits no matter the lighting or f stop.

      it’s easy to consider contrast detect as inferior due to its focus hunting and that is true which is why I bought a R6 but trust me the R6 has its AF flaws as well. It’s just another tool and one I enjoy now having. I hope if Panasonic uses phase detect someday they take a hybrid approach and keep both and keep trying to make contrast detect better. Eventually contrast detect may even be as good as phase detect. Some reviewers are now saying 60p is pretty darn close if not there already. Maybe a 120hz sensor will be used by Panasonic to help with the 24p readout speed. 120 is exactly 5x 24p and if the 120 readout is fast enough it could potentially be very fast 24p AF.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Peter C. View Post

        So basically what I speculated.

        Sounds like they not going to try to compete on AF or light sensitivity so they pop in a 5.7k sensor with faster a processor and call it a day.

        It's not a terrible camera. I think Panasonic might not have planned on building a GH6 but because their FF aren't competing well with Sony/Canon, they decided it might be better to retreat back M43 where they have some advantage.
        Just about every review says the GH5II auto focus is better. So no reason to think they will not improve it on the GH6. Le'ts hope so. This one one review of a camera buyer on B&H

        "The autofocus is greatly improved without pulsing and hunting it can track faces with confidence. Also the dynamic range has been greatly improved and the image quality is dramatically improved in color science and jpeg rendering I would say they fixed all the shortcomings of the GH5 with the same dependability."

        Comment


          Originally posted by Zim View Post

          Just about every review says the GH5II auto focus is better. So no reason to think they will not improve it on the GH6. Le'ts hope so. This one one review of a camera buyer on B&H

          "The autofocus is greatly improved without pulsing and hunting it can track faces with confidence. Also the dynamic range has been greatly improved and the image quality is dramatically improved in color science and jpeg rendering I would say they fixed all the shortcomings of the GH5 with the same dependability."
          Can't completely trust reviews like this because people don't know any better, see any better. Meaning they don't know what good AF is or they don't literately see any better.

          Rip video tests off of YouTube that are more than 5 seconds long and zoom in 200%, 300% on the image and confirm yourself if what's happening is okay for you.

          I'm sure it's improved over the years because how could it not after 15 years of cameras like this, but I'd keep an open mind with people's experiences.

          Comment


            Originally posted by NorBro View Post
            I'd keep an open mind with people's experiences.
            Don't forget to include the never ending parade of Best Seller tags from certain retailers

            Comment


              Those seem accurate though because Canon and Sony always get them and Panasonic doesn't. lol

              However, Blackmagic Pockets always on top for like 4 years...although R5, a7SIII and FX3 knocked them around for a bit some weeks.

              Anyone who knows cameras or is in touch with YouTube could probably guess what the best sellers are and the list would be close to what it actually is.

              Comment


                Originally posted by NorBro View Post

                Can't completely trust reviews like this because people don't know any better, see any better. Meaning they don't know what good AF is or they don't literately see any better.

                Rip video tests off of YouTube that are more than 5 seconds long and zoom in 200%, 300% on the image and confirm yourself if what's happening is okay for you.

                I'm sure it's improved over the years because how could it not after 15 years of cameras like this, but I'd keep an open mind with people's experiences.
                200 to 300% zoomed in is your test? It must be better if that is your standard!
                Yes it is probably not perfect but improved. These are from people who actually have the camera ,not taking them off Youtube and zooming in 300%

                The lens a person is using could effect the AF as well.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Zim View Post

                  200 to 300% zoomed in is your test? It must be better if that is your standard!
                  Yes it is probably not perfect but improved. These are from people who actually have the camera ,not taking them off Youtube and zooming in 300%
                  Well, yeah...that's how professionals test AF. But I'm assuming you've never heard of it...

                  Anyone can buy a camera and still be ignorant, uninformed.

                  Zooming in 200%, 300% shows the AF system's flaws which you won't see with Canon or Sony in the same ideal setting.

                  I already explained this to you many times but you don't seem to be catching on and just go back to what people say in "reviews". lol

                  The Panasonics twitch and you'll see bokeh growing and shrinking over time. They don't hold focus like Canon and Sony.

                  I don't need to buy the camera to confirm my own results if all of the other tests I'm watching are doing the same thing.

                  Me owning the camera won't make it magically better.

                  People who don't have any AF experience don't see this. If you film a person perfectly lit, sitting in a chair looking at the camera, for about 40 seconds the Panasonic might be absolutely perfect and then all of a sudden at 41 seconds the focus starts to twitch back-and-forth. No rhyme or reason.

                  You don't need to listen to me but you will eventually learn for yourself when you decide you want to learn.

                  Comment


                    Don't even need to zoom in...just look at the Christmas tree lights (already linked at the correct time).

                    This is what has depressed us over the years and this pains me when you know they could have it right:

                    https://youtu.be/h3IuyguDUms?t=341

                    Comment


                      Final mention...one might say the Christmas tree lights are affecting the focus and that's a valid thought - but I've already seen other tests (and have done my own with other cameras) that lead me to believe it's mostly a non-factor for superior systems. (As long as they aren't too bright or overwhelming the frame.)

                      I can't find Gordon Laing's test with the same lights he's using below, but in the video below he has a short clip at 54 seconds where he walks toward the camera and if you look at the lights they are beautifully, rock solid. (The transition in the size of the bokeh could be better but that's more on the quality of the lens than anything else.)

                      Canon at its best...and if you happen to find the longer test, he walks back and forth and the lights behave as they should.

                      Not freaking out like the knucklehead system Panasonic is using:

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by NorBro View Post
                        Don't even need to zoom in...just look at the Christmas tree lights (already linked at the correct time).

                        This is what has depressed us over the years and this pains me when you know they could have it right:

                        https://youtu.be/h3IuyguDUms?t=341
                        Well if I was doing an interview with a christmas tree lit up I would probably switch off the AF. Yes it is not perfect for sure but better/improved, but I hope it gets better.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by NorBro View Post

                          Well, yeah...that's how professionals test AF. But I'm assuming you've never heard of it...

                          Anyone can buy a camera and still be ignorant, uninformed.

                          Zooming in 200%, 300% shows the AF system's flaws which you won't see with Canon or Sony in the same ideal setting.

                          I already explained this to you many times but you don't seem to be catching on and just go back to what people say in "reviews". lol

                          The Panasonics twitch and you'll see bokeh growing and shrinking over time. They don't hold focus like Canon and Sony.

                          I don't need to buy the camera to confirm my own results if all of the other tests I'm watching are doing the same thing.

                          Me owning the camera won't make it magically better.

                          People who don't have any AF experience don't see this. If you film a person perfectly lit, sitting in a chair looking at the camera, for about 40 seconds the Panasonic might be absolutely perfect and then all of a sudden at 41 seconds the focus starts to twitch back-and-forth. No rhyme or reason.

                          You don't need to listen to me but you will eventually learn for yourself when you decide you want to learn.
                          It's funny you use the same reviews and videos you say we can't trust, to prove your GH hating point of view.

                          I have a GH3 so I know the limits of them. The GH5II would be a huge improvement and sometimes you work around it or not use it. Switch of the AF. I would buy the GH5II but I think it is over priced and I will give more time to see what the GH6 will have.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Zim View Post

                            It's funny you use the same reviews and videos you say we can't trust, to prove your GH hating point of view.

                            I have a GH3 so I know the limits of them. The GH5II would be a huge improvement and sometimes you work around it or not use it. Switch of the AF. I would buy the GH5II but I think it is over priced and I will give more time to see what the GH6 will have.
                            It's not funny, I just think we're having a language barrier here...not sure.

                            In short, I wouldn't trust words on paper. For videos, you can trust them more if you see the results speak for themselves (especially from multiple people).

                            I'll be the first one to post a Panasonic AF video holding focus perfectly for more than a minute the second I find it.

                            Comment


                              I take those reviews with a grain of salt. People get exuberant over a new purchase. If the GH5 II was that fantastic why would they be releasing a GH6? AF like Norbro said are dependent on conditions. There are also subtle things a person might miss. I've heard tracking box displayed doesn't always represent what really is in focus. Or it focuses ok at higher frame rates but at 24 it's not good. I've seen enough videos to know the AF can't hold a candle to Canon/Sony.
                              Last edited by Peter C.; 01-05-2022, 08:39 AM.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Peter C. View Post
                                I take those reviews with a grain of salt. People get exuberant over a new purchase. If the GH5 II was that fantastic why would they be releasing a GH6? AF like Norbro said are dependent on conditions. There are also subtle things a person might miss. I've heard tracking box displayed doesn't always represent what really is in focus. Or it focuses ok at higher frame rates but at 24 it's not good. I've seen enough videos to know the AF can't hold a candle to Canon/Sony.
                                I guess they release it to make money. Make a few changes and charge more. They all do that. I think the GH6 should be a big upgrade...if it ever comes out.

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