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  • NorBro
    replied
    It's good on them for spending the energy and doing it (I don't foresee any revival happening but it's cool).

    ___

    It is primal, for sure, but not always with technology, electronics; things shrink and change, and people forget about yesteryear sizes, gadgets.

    If enough time passes for new people to live lives without seeing big cameras being used then they won't have formed a mental image that a bigger camera is a better camera.

    But if that doesn't happen then it's never going to change and bigger will always be better.

    Leave a comment:


  • ahalpert
    replied
    The couples who hire the film photogs seem to be into it. Periodically you also have gen z celebs popularizing throwbacks to film photography, vinyl records, Camus' The Stranger... as long as there is a theory of superiority (deserved, in my opinion), there is the potential for revival. Wet plate still bounces around the same way, but it's far more difficult and costly to do

    Re:camera size - come on, man. Size comparison/bias is primal

    Leave a comment:


  • NorBro
    replied
    Originally posted by ahalpert View Post

    But that's almost an upside from the POV of a freelancer. I've met many wedding photographers who advertise on the basis that they shoot with film. (Typically they bring along a medium format or 35MM camera and do about 25% of the shooting on it.) The fact that their clients don't know how to use it is almost a good thing.

    Or look at the propensity of clients and laymen to judge the quality of a camera by its size. One guy shows up with a phone and one guy shows up with a bazooka. That's curb appeal
    It's a fun gimmick and makes great sense to try and separate yourself with something unique, but I don't know if anyone really cares.

    The size of the camera does impress, and I actually just said that in another thread yesterday, but that's only for now because people who lived through that are still alive.

    Leave a comment:


  • stoneinapond
    replied
    Meanwhile Leica just announced a $9,000 M11 Rangefinder.....

    Leave a comment:


  • DLD
    replied
    Most smartphone "photographers" don't care about the "pro quality", as long as they got something reasonable into the frame.

    Side story - on Facebook, I click on the various ads that claim something like "20 greatest photographs of Marylin Monroe" or "Studio 54 in its glory". It'll be too difficult to dismiss them as "click bait" because some shots are quite well known, while others are well taken, at least from a photography buff POV. And some, such as "the most hilarious photos taken at Walmart" are actually quite hilarious. And quite a few are series of photos taken by the top photographers of the era, from Slim Aarons to Barry Feinstein and so on. And when one looks at those taken by the top pros, it's pretty easy to pick up on the idea of the proper/preferred angles, the composition within the frame, etc. And sometimes I'll make a copy of these shots and post them on the various groups' pages. The same pages where people with artistic inclinations post their own artwork and personal photos, with most photos being taken on smartphones. And where everything that one could have learned from the photography masters gets tossed out of the window.

    Leave a comment:


  • ahalpert
    replied
    Originally posted by NorBro View Post
    There is definitely a demand now and probably will be for another century, but these kind of products could disappear like other things in our lives if enough time passes with newer humans using them less or using something else.

    There could be a day in which picking up a Panasonic mirrorless would be similar to picking up a Bolex 16mm right now. Most people kind of don't know what a Bolex is and definitely don't know how to use it unless they lived through the time or were trained.
    But that's almost an upside from the POV of a freelancer. I've met many wedding photographers who advertise on the basis that they shoot with film. (Typically they bring along a medium format or 35MM camera and do about 25% of the shooting on it.) The fact that their clients don't know how to use it is almost a good thing.

    Or look at the propensity of clients and laymen to judge the quality of a camera by its size. One guy shows up with a phone and one guy shows up with a bazooka. That's curb appeal

    Leave a comment:


  • ahalpert
    replied
    Originally posted by DLD View Post
    And, more importantly, unless one pixel peeps, the quality of stills is already beyond the "good enough" threshold.
    The issue here IMO is that most smartphone photographers are taking easy shots. Posed/staged/repeatable. I'm sure there are exceptions. But the reason I keep comparing real cameras to race cars and sports cars is because we require a degree of handling/control/speed/performance that you don't require of a daily driver. For daily driver tasks, all the extra power of a race car is wasted.

    Leave a comment:


  • ahalpert
    replied
    Originally posted by stoneinapond View Post

    My question is, will companies at some point stop making cameras altogether?
    IMO, this only happens if a phone camera becomes better than a real camera, and even the pros are only using phones. And I think the only way that would happen is if the computational/algorithmic side of the processing became so good and so time-saving that it gave a decisive edge to the computer company (Apple) making phones. But pros will usually want to do their own processing anyway... My guess is a firm no.

    Leave a comment:


  • DLD
    replied
    Panasonic will be around - well, let's say, should be around - as they're moving into the electric cars and batteries and, more importantly, adopting an American style management structure. Whether the company will hold onto their camera manufacturing is questionable and I'd lean toward "no". Much like Samsung, they're too big to worry about small things. If one gives them 8% of the $4,000,000,000 (is that enough zeroes?) global revenues, then the Lumix is bringing in a little over $300M. That's small fries for a $70B company, with the fry being one half of one percent.

    As to the demand for stand-alone cameras, it's around 15M units, IIRC - 5 for the ILC's and 10 for the P&S. Perhaps, as importantly, the global market penetration for the stand-alone cameras is around 20%. My take is that, within 5-7 years, it'll be mostly pros with the ILC's; the rest will be more than happy with their smartphones.

    Leave a comment:


  • NorBro
    replied
    One thing I miss is typing on a BlackBerry phone...I can't be the only one, can I?

    [They are actually releasing a new one, believe it or not, ha.]

    Leave a comment:


  • NorBro
    replied
    There is definitely a demand now and probably will be for another century, but these kind of products could disappear like other things in our lives if enough time passes with newer humans using them less or using something else.

    There could be a day in which picking up a Panasonic mirrorless would be similar to picking up a Bolex 16mm right now. Most people kind of don't know what a Bolex is and definitely don't know how to use it unless they lived through the time or were trained.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Basically...year 2210:

    "What's this, Bob?"

    "Oh, that was my great grandfather's. I think it's a camera."

    "Really? This thing? Who's Panasonic?"

    Leave a comment:


  • stoneinapond
    replied
    Originally posted by DLD View Post
    BTW, I think a smaller company like Blackmagic Design or ARRI have a much better chance of survival than the Japanese giants. Just an opinion.
    Because they don't appear to cripple, but rather serve their client base.

    BTW, I still think there is a demand for standalone cameras, not as huge as once was, but still there. One reason is ergonomics. Form factor is relevant. Unless we travel far into the future and acquire NorBro's magic cubes.

    Leave a comment:


  • DLD
    replied
    BTW, I think a smaller company like Blackmagic Design or ARRI have a much better chance of survival than the Japanese giants. Just an opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • DLD
    replied
    Originally posted by stoneinapond View Post

    That's a disingenuous comparison. Nobody buys a phone solely for the camera and nobody buys a camera to use as a phone (except for those monstrosities Panasonic and RED released way back when).

    My question is, will companies at some point stop making cameras altogether? That is in many ways the thrust of your argument. My response is no, because despite how much phone makers can enhance the images produced by their cameras, it's still an artificial process. Yes, it's close for certain types of imaging but you can't defy physics when it comes to light traveling down a tube full of glass striking a large sensor. Perhaps in a dystopian future there will only be one camera manufacturer but I doubt that will be the case. There is always someone who bets against the giants and achieves a modicum of success (Blackmagic?).
    Smartphone camera modules run from ~ $6 to $30. And there are 3-4 of them per phone. With about 1.3 billion phones sold each year.

    An Omnivision recent release mentioned over 100 million smartphones sold that have a 100 MPX+ camera (going from memory or is it 50MPX+?).

    In any case, the reason I brought this up (and, yes, $4B) is because the mobile phone industry is far more lucrative in general and there's always a race to gain an advantage in all and any feature sets. Whether it's the screen, the CPU/GPU, cameras, refresh rate - they're all important because a popular model can move tens of millions units. Not so with the stand alone cameras. What was once a 120 million units per year industry is down to about 15 mil, both fixed mount and ILC's and the cartel displays its cripple hammer more often than not.

    As to the future, Conan -- it's unknown. The likely scenario is winnowing of the competition to where only Sony and Canon remain. And, while physics is physics, math is math too. Samsung and Omnivision are coming out with the 200 MPX camera modules, actually extending the gap in resolution over the Japanese made ILC's. And, more importantly, unless one pixel peeps, the quality of stills is already beyond the "good enough" threshold. And it's beyond an average-non-DVXUser-ability as a photographer too.

    Leave a comment:


  • NorBro
    replied
    Supposedly...wouldn't know...but supposedly, they move $500,000 of inventory per day - so that would be $15M per month (average 30 days), so 4 million in cameras/accessories (including lenses) from the 15 million could sound believable, but I don't know if that's the cast post-February 2020.

    Leave a comment:

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