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  • Peter C.
    replied
    I can agree with his point that we tend to put too much emphasis on the tools we use but he goes a little too to far arguing against modern technological advances . There’s nothing wrong with new technologies and methods like using log raw. Just as high end tools don’t make a bad filmmaker better they don’t make a great filmmaker worse. Said another way tools are net neutral to the filmmaker abilities to tell a story. It’s inevitable people use tools as crutch or misuse tech. The appeal of focusing on tools is it’s more straightforward to buy a newer camera than to improve your creativity. You can’t place an order on B&H for more creativity. He also makes a good point to get as much as you can right while filming and not relying on tech to bail you out in post. Whether that be raw or 32bit float.
    Last edited by Peter C.; 02-25-2022, 08:41 AM.

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  • NorBro
    replied
    There are many more successful beautifully filmed bad stories than terribly filmed good stories.

    A lot of "good stories" from amazing artists no one has heard of don't go anywhere. Maybe that means they aren't good enough? IDK.

    So if telling a good story is mostly about feeling good and not making any money then that's cool, but I think you need a little bit of everything.

    Because at some point too much life has passed and people don't have the patience to entertain a poor video production unless you're really doing something different and engaging everyone from the first frame (one-in-a-million gimmicks like The BW Project).

    I know you like to use iPhone examples as counterpoints, even though it's mostly the same 3-4 movies because that's literally how long the list, but even films like Unsane had some higher production values plus money and connections to promote it.

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  • Zim
    replied
    Originally posted by Thomas Smet View Post
    AF is super nice on the R6. Without a doubt it works very well and is nice to have. Key word nice to have.

    I just don't buy that everyone needs or even wants that.

    I will just leave this here. Its always good to put into perspective what is important. Yeah he had a crew in the past but since he has done a lot of stuff on his own. Most of this stuff is a nice to have and not a must have. 4k, 6k, 8k, IBIS, AF, auto exposure, high DR, whatever. My favorite line of his is there are nerds and there are artists. I myself fall a lot of times into the nard category and I'm trying hard to dial that back. I miss just having fun creating video and being innovative at ways to get it done.

    He is right. A good story is more important than anything. Let's not forget good audio too. You can have a RED and still make a piece of crap film.

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  • morgan_moore
    replied
    What an absolute wan_ker - a clueless ignorant fu_ck.

    Yep I started on slide film koda 64 too. I shot heaps of tmax whatever..

    Film often has a wider DR than digital - look how those highlights hold on those classic films.

    People shoot digital raw to try and get close to film.. not because they are too dumb to use film

    DR, always you need to control it. WIth some film that means a 10k into the shadows. If some digital doesnt need that its just good for the environment.. its not sloppy film making

    What a n_ob if digital brings visual story telling to those that cant afford a 10k thats fine.

    Digital is the 'simple tool', the charcoal stick not film.





    Originally posted by Thomas Smet View Post


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  • NorBro
    replied
    Wanted to rewrite my post and combine two thoughts.

    First, Sony's AF is AI-based (Canon's too, along with deep learning), so the great technology is there for the taking...

    ___

    Second...

    Originally posted by filmguy123 View Post
    Sure, but to be fair I'd put the desire for AF into the "artist" category, where as pixel peeping codecs and bitrates (at least these days as we've hit dimishing returns) into the "nerd" category.
    After working more & more with REDCODE - and I said this a few times already - I really love this sensor and how it handles mixed lighting.

    The more I think I know, the less I do! And I'm going to post footage soon, few weeks.

    These subtle nuances which ultimately add up to creating higher-end looks (which of course includes higher dynamic range) are really important.

    So in the grand scheme of our combined nerdiness, I do think pixel peeping and many codecs and bitrates will blend together on YouTube, but I really do see a strong argument for RAW. Not marketing RAW - but lots of substantial sensor data from all of these beautiful and powerful chips that are able to see more closer to how our eyes see the world.

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  • filmguy123
    replied
    Originally posted by Thomas Smet View Post
    My favorite line of his is there are nerds and there are artists.
    Sure, but to be fair I'd put the desire for AF into the "artist" category, where as pixel peeping codecs and bitrates (at least these days as we've hit dimishing returns) into the "nerd" category.

    Me? I'm a nerdy artist. Boom. Problem solved!

    Originally posted by NorBro View Post
    filmguy, IIRC, I think you're a gamer so you think a little bit differently about the tech (in a great way), but the problem here is it's Japan competing with Japan, not America competing with Japan (Xbox/PlayStation), so that just doesn't work.
    Yeah I'm not a non-believer in the cartel or anything. I'm more of a I dunno what to believe, but it does seem completely plausible and a good explanation of said matters. I can also buy the explanation that things are changing now because each company was guarding its higher end lines and with camera market going the way it is, they've sort of abandoned that and moving all in without fear of cannibalizing higher end cameras.

    In either case, I suppose my theory fits into *either* - just that even if Panny is blocked from the tech, they may be able to brute force is through sheer machine learning intelligence, and that seems to be at this point happening on the software end more than the hardware end (its a both and, but I think the roadblock at the moment seems to be the AI is still a bit too dumb... the good news being that is code and can be updated via the air). The way that is progressing right now is mind bending (see DLSS, photo searching, voice recognition, etc.). It's improving at an exponential rate.

    Well, I certainly would not bet on that just coming for free via firmware , as even if possible it may well be saved to sell new hardware, I'm just pontificating. And more so wondering if by the time I went through the hassle of swapping platforms if I'd get one year in and Panasonic comes out with their next DFD camera where the AI caught up and it just works.

    So I'll wait it out a bit longer, mostly because things are still slow right now...


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  • Peter C.
    replied
    Originally posted by Thomas Smet View Post
    You just attacked everyone on this forum. lol.

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  • NorBro
    replied
    A fantastic storyteller, but completely and utterly misses the point by comparing history and its success and justifying that against modern technology and new options.

    Nerd or artist, all of us understand all of the above and what has taken place on earth, but we may want to do things differently because we can and not because we had no other choice like 10-20-30-40-50+ years ago.

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  • Thomas Smet
    replied
    AF is super nice on the R6. Without a doubt it works very well and is nice to have. Key word nice to have.

    I just don't buy that everyone needs or even wants that.

    I will just leave this here. Its always good to put into perspective what is important. Yeah he had a crew in the past but since he has done a lot of stuff on his own. Most of this stuff is a nice to have and not a must have. 4k, 6k, 8k, IBIS, AF, auto exposure, high DR, whatever. My favorite line of his is there are nerds and there are artists. I myself fall a lot of times into the nard category and I'm trying hard to dial that back. I miss just having fun creating video and being innovative at ways to get it done.

    Leave a comment:


  • NorBro
    replied
    P.S. DLD...I already opened up the RP and ordered some stuff for it. lol

    Leave a comment:


  • NorBro
    replied
    filmguy, IIRC, I think you're a gamer so you think a little bit differently about the tech (in a great way), but the problem here is it's Japan competing with Japan, not America competing with Japan (Xbox/PlayStation), so that just doesn't work.

    There are reasons why overheating and 4K crops and pixel-binned HD and Sony's 8-bit etc. etc. lasted for 10 years while Panasonic saw none of those problems.

    They all appear to shine in different ways with a meticulous distribution of features.

    Before any of this AF business with Panasonic, from 2014-2020 I was constantly asking where is the 4K full-frame (even 8-bit) from Canon. Canon!

    It just never came until 2020 and the closest we got was with the 1DX Mark II at 1.3x.

    Same for Sony...10 years of no 10-bit from Sony Corporation? Sony Corporation?!

    Don't know anything about anyone, but it's all a game to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • filmguy123
    replied
    Kartoshka - hook line and sinker, consider it done. Especially with coffee. My love language.

    GH6 is for a sure a buy for me, my m43 lens collection is embarrassing (Leica 10-25, 50-200, 42.5; Lumix 12-35; Nokton 10.5, 17.5, 25, 42.5; Olympus 12, Olympus 75; Laowa 7.5, more...) - and the GH5 and GH5S need a replacement. And slot right up against my S1H/EVA1, so it's a purchase to balance out the whole package.

    An AF camera from Canon/Sony would be additive for now, I think... with any gear sales being selling of existing lenses... R5C is out as I don't do non IBIS cameras anymore... especially if it's AF capable because the main point would by dynamic movement. Ninja V isn't out, but I really think external recording is nearing death unless you're after RAW or something. For me, at this point, it's got to be internal - and if I use an external screen it should be really light, like my SmallHD 502 or a Shinobi, powered by dtap to keep the weight nice.

    Yeah, I'm high maintenance, lol. But man things are moving fast. Actually I think the A7SIII could handle all of that today - and I bet in another year we'll be even more spoiled for options.

    Originally posted by ahalpert View Post

    This is what I told myself. "I'll just buy 1 Sony zoom lens for when I need AF." Now I've got 8. It's hard not to have AF as an option, especially with the joy of fast primes
    I can see that. Big time.

    Ok, well, you all officially put AF back on my radar in a *big* way. My interest is piqued. Giving it more thought...

    Gott verlässt uns.

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  • ahalpert
    replied
    Originally posted by filmguy123 View Post
    .

    Seems easier though, if needed, to just get a body (Canon or Sony) + 24-70 lens (Sony GM or Canon RF) + EF adapters, maintain my manual primes, and then only need a single electronic AF killer zoom that covers most things. I'm going to table this pontification until the fall though after I know my numbers for the year and watch the market.
    This is what I told myself. "I'll just buy 1 Sony zoom lens for when I need AF." Now I've got 8. It's hard not to have AF as an option, especially with the joy of fast primes

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  • DLD
    replied
    Originally posted by filmguy123 View Post

    Still with us. ... .
    Gott mit uns.

    But my suggestion - unless new gear is urgently needed - is to rent GH-6 when it becomes available and test it under the conditions you're familiar with. Then rent R5, with or without Ninja 5, and R5C when available.

    If my suggestions seem trite, I suggest you test Kartoshka. NorBro says that stuff - candy, not actual potatoes - is delicious. I say it's even better with good coffee.

    Leave a comment:


  • filmguy123
    replied
    Originally posted by NorBro View Post
    I have a brand new RP if you want it. Got it as a gift for Christmas, still in the box.

    Does have DPAF but only in HD.
    Oh, *NOW* I see what you're up. Kidding.

    Well, if you want to pay it forward as a belated valentine's day gift for filmguy, I couldn't possibly say no to your generosity!

    Leave a comment:

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