How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?

[stoneinapond]

Not happening, ha.

Oh yee of little faith.

Announcement shmouncements. It needs none. Mention the model number and the multitude's hearts are aflutter.

[NorBro]

Trust I want it to happen. Truly so.

GH5 was a big deal, but most of the new kids on the block only use full-frame chips so the GH6 doesn't carry the same weight anymore.

I'm legacy these days, so I'll still buy a GH6. lol

[DLD]

If Panasonic could talk Sony into allowing it to have modern AF, it'd first introduce it in their higher end L-mount cameras. But it had not done so. In other words, chances of GH-6 having a super-duper auto focus. even if it has some phase detect points, are slim to none.

The same goes for Fuji, Nikon and Olympus/OMD. Sony made sensors have decent AF for stills and crap for video.

[stoneinapond]

If Panasonic could talk Sony into allowing it to have modern AF, it'd first introduce it in their higher end L-mount cameras. But it had not done so.

Is this based on actual information or speculation? Because from my point of view the statement is illogical. I imagine Sony wants to maintain it's full frame superiority whereas it has nothing to protect in the m43 area and therefore could be more open to allowing better AF.

Either way, I'm just speculating. We'll know sooner rather than later.

[DLD]

The whole market is mapped out and every camera is made to fit a niche. Oddly enough, the sensor size is among the least relevant variables. As mentioned in another thread, the new Fuji GFX50SII is a $4,000 medium format 51 MPX camera that only has 1080p video recording capability. In 2021! And that's because it has a Sony sensor and Sony doesn't want it to cannibalize its own $3,500 A7RIV that line-skips or crops 4K.

PS. Of course, I overslept those meetings at the Mitsubishi HQ. It could be entirely incidental. Wink-wink, nudge.

[stoneinapond]

Wink-wink, nudge.

[Peter C.]

I don't think Sony is preventing Panasonic from developing a better AF system. More like Panasonic has conceded AF to Canon and Sony and will market their cameras for the things they are good at (lower price, unlimited record, no over heating). What would be the point spending the resources to develop a camera that would then need to compete directly with Sony and Canon? Even if they could attain the equivalent AF, Canon/Sony users wouldn't switch to a similar camera without the same robust family of lenses.

[DLD]

I don't think Sony is preventing Panasonic from developing a better AF system. .

It's a Sony sensor with the phase detect auto focus points disabled.

You know what I mean, nudge-nudge?

[Peter C.]

It's a Sony sensor with the phase detect auto focus points disabled.

You know what I mean, nudge-nudge?

Do you have proof that Sony disabled PDAF?

I just read an article with a direct quote from Panasonic, saying they chose not to us PDAF because they believed it would hurt image quality:

"When we were developing the GH4, we were discussing whether to go with phase detection AF, or hybrid AF system of contrast AF with our own DFD (depth-from- defocus) technology. We thought that by having contrast AF with DFD, we could maximize picture quality. With phase detection AF, picture quality can be damaged. This is because with phase detection AF, picture quality can be damaged [by the phase detect pixels]. With contrast-detection AF and DFD technology, we don’t need any dedicated pixels [for autofocus] and we believe it is more precise."

https://thenewcamera.com/pdaf-may-da...ity-panasonic/
This interview was from 2018. Three years ago! lol

This supports my opinion that when Sony sells its sensor it's up to the camera manufacture how to implement it. The above quote shows that Panasonic made a poor decision not use PDAF. This means Panasonic would have to do two things. First admit they made a mistake and then have the time and money to play catch up.

[ahalpert]

That's probably just a cover story

But yeah, tower jazz said the same thing about PDAF. (It causes PDAF striping I believe- like rows of dead pixels for the dedicated AF pixels). I dont think tower jazz is doing so hot these days

But the market has clearly spoken. Photographers like phase detect. Having things in focus is a far bigger contributor to image quality than the processing they have contrived to cover up the PDAF striping artifacts. (Anyway I dont notice image issues from pdaf...I think they have been cleverly concealed)

[DLD]

Do you have proof that Sony disabled PDAF? ...

I didn't say Sony disabled Panasonic's PDAF. I said the cartel members agreed to product crippling in order to maintain a higher profit structure and greater overall control over the market. Which would have worked splendidly, had it not been for the smartphone manufacturers, which have destroyed a previously lucrative stand-alone camera business.

And what Panasonc said was pure bullcrap. Sony uses both PDAFand CDAF. Canon uses DP PDAF. Nikon dropped CD but kept PD. Panasonic dropped PD and kept CD. Fuji kept PD. Both Sony and Canon have the industry leading - it's close - AF for both stills and video. Nikon, Panasonic and Fujifilm have an OK AF for stills but not for video (all have various problems). Most importantly, in terms of the sales figures, Panasonic and Nikon are in dire straits and most executives in a familiar situation would have chosen an optimal business strategy, not a system with a minute decrease in a hypothetical performance at the expense of the convenience and market popularity. In other words, Panasonic is blowing smoke up people's behinds much like many manufacturers do.

Side note - Toyota and Subaru have insisted for years that their joint production sports car has so little power because there's "no room" for a turbocharger. The aftermarket tuners somehow didn't hear that claim and produced the turbo kits of their own. The real reason for the F86/BRZ lacking turbo was because neither manufacturer wanted to cannibalize sales of the adjacent models - Subaru WRX and Toyota Supra - which do have them. Likewise, Honda kept smaller engine with less power for Civic SI because it didn't want to interfere with the success of the Accord. Similar cars - Ford Focus ST, Hyundai Veloster N, Mazda 3, VW GTI/R, etc. - all have turbo charged 2L engine.

[Peter C.]

That's probably just a cover story

But yeah, tower jazz said the same thing about PDAF. (It causes PDAF striping I believe- like rows of dead pixels for the dedicated AF pixels). I dont think tower jazz is doing so hot these days

But the market has clearly spoken. Photographers like phase detect. Having things in focus is a far bigger contributor to image quality than the processing they have contrived to cover up the PDAF striping artifacts. (Anyway I dont notice image issues from pdaf...I think they have been cleverly concealed)

I think it's reasonable to assume that dedicated pixels for PD could have had an impact but Panasonic was short sighted and took the easy way out by giving up on it and staying with the older established tech of contrast detect instead of trying over come PD issues. Could also be that they commonly concentrate on certain features while letting the competition develop others. Normally this strategy works. Our camera does 4k and your camera does slow motion, our camera has 10bit and your camera image stabilization. They just didn't foresee that AF feature being that important. I don't know if I could blame them because as recent as a year ago there was an intense debate here whether professionals would want to use AF. After all in cinema they still use manual focus.

[ahalpert]

I dont think its that difficult to add these features. Smartphones are adding them all. RED is adding PDAF and they're way more cinema-oriented than panasonic

[DLD]

One thing Panasonic did for stills was to eliminate the motion artifacts from the multi frame pixel shift sequence. Or, at least, managed to mitigate them. Sony's high end offers a 16-shot sequence (4x resolution) that can only be done on stationary subjects. And, as a sop to Panasonic, Sony agreed not to do a 4-shot sequence for double the res.

This is where (potentially), GH-6 can cover some ground in its relatively low resolution sensor. With a newer faster processor and sensor readout, having a 4-into-2 pixel shift mode would bring it into the $2,500 mainstream. And, if they can do a decent 16-into-4 job, then it'd take another step up..

[Peter C.]

I dont think its that difficult to add these features. Smartphones are adding them all. RED is adding PDAF and they're way more cinema-oriented than panasonic

I can't claim to understand the inner workings of these systems but I'd imagine if it was that easy they would have switched. I think enabling phase detect is one thing but it's far more complex to program the camera to do face detection and tracking. This is where Sony and Canon put the time and money to develop an AF system that works well. We all can speculate the reasons why they didn't implement PD but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter because they didn't and it doesn't look like they will in the foreseeable future.