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    That's peculiar photography paper specs talk from DLD, again...

    Sony sensors were always a notch or two above Canon's? Meaning exactly what...?

    In the hybrids, Canon had 4K first, better color, better AF, a better codec/format (MJPEG, 5 years before Sony), a higher bitrate, internal 10-bit first, and even better image stabilization...and better lenses for all of this.

    Sony recently improved a lot but Canon was pretty much always better in everything besides maybe DR and allowing people to use the entire sensor for video. And probably AF, but just recently.

    P.S. ARRI doesn't care about RED.

    Comment


      8-bit was/is Sony's cripple hammer to protect the Fuji APS-C line with the Sony made sensors. Fuji, in turn, AF'ed up its AF to protect Sony's AXXX APS-C line. So, it's a carousel of destruction.

      Comment


        Originally posted by NorBro View Post
        That's peculiar photography paper specs talk from DLD, again...

        Sony sensors were always a notch or two above Canon's? Meaning exactly what...?.
        Sony's sensors had a better DR and a better low light performance in the "consumer range" (not counting the $20,000 4,000,000 ISO camera).

        The 8-bit limitations were not due to the Sony engineers anyway. It was done at the HQ.

        Comment


          Originally posted by DLD View Post

          Sony's sensors had a better DR and a better low light performance in the "consumer range" (not counting the $20,000 4,000,000 ISO camera).

          The 8-bit limitations were not due to the Sony engineers anyway. It was done at the HQ.
          Yes but from a video perspective that sensor DR really means squat. The only way to really get the most out of the Sony sensor is log and only then with the flatter log formats like slog3.

          Panasonic is really the first FF DSLR that can really say its video can actually handle 14+ stops of DR thanks to the full Vlog. Sony has been fudging its DR reality for a very long time.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Thomas Smet View Post

            Yes but from a video perspective that sensor DR really means squat. The only way to really get the most out of the Sony sensor is log and only then with the flatter log formats like slog3.

            Panasonic is really the first FF DSLR that can really say its video can actually handle 14+ stops of DR thanks to the full Vlog. Sony has been fudging its DR reality for a very long time.
            Wait what? What's the difference between shooting V log and shooting s log three? Seems to me like they can both handle the complete range of the sensor
            www.VideoAbe.com

            "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." -Harvey

            Comment


              Originally posted by Thomas Smet View Post
              Shot ISO 25600 on the Canon R6 the other night just to see what it could do. Its insane how clean it is.

              .
              Ah, you really have come over to the dark side
              www.VideoAbe.com

              "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." -Harvey

              Comment


                I have no idea what the full range of the S-LOG3 format is, but the full Panasonic V-LOG range is 16 stops. ( the GH5 V-LOG L range is 12 stops )

                So I checked...

                S-Log2 was designed from the outset for recording 14 stops with an electronic video camera. So it makes use of the cameras full recording range. S-Log3 is based on an old film log curve (cineon) designed to transfer 16 stops or more to a digital intermediate. So when the camera only has a 14 stop sensor you waste a large part of the available recording range. On a 10 bit camera this doesn’t make much difference. But on a 8 bit camera where you are already very limited with the number of tonal values you can record it isn’t ideal and as a result S-Log2 is often a better choice.
                https://www.xdcam-user.com/2018/08/n...-and-exposure/

                Comment


                  Yeah S-Log3 really pushes the limits of 8bit and it can break a lot easier. Plus the range just isn't there and one is likely not getting the same number of stops of DR as the sensor is capable of with raw.

                  Log is amazing but its not a miracle and it uses a curve to map a wider range of values into a normal file. Canon and Sony provide different levels of log that work better for some cameras with limited DR.

                  Panasonic knew the GH4/GH5 was never goign to match the DR capable on the Varicam so they came up with V-log L is a flawed attempt to still use the same luts across all cameras. V-log L assumes all else is equal bu the sensor can't do 16 stops so it truncates those stops that are just not possible. Many of us refer to it as flawed because it uses. subset of the 8bit or 10bit values and is not optimized for the sensor or the recording format.

                  C.log 1 on the other hand can work great on 8bit formats. Its flatter and has less of a baked in image as rec709 formats but since its not super flat it really only gains a tiny bit of DR. C.log3 is where Log really starts to shine on Canon. C.log2 is even flatter but thats reserved just for the Canon cinema cameras. Kind of a miracle we managed to get c.log3. C.log3 really suffers on 8bit which is why Canon typically reserved it for their cinema cameras. Now that the R5 and R6 have internal 10bit C.log3 works fantastically.

                  Sony is the same way as Canon. S-Log1 works pretty good on 8bit as it doesn't try to push the limited values too hard. At the same time it doesn't provide a ton of extra DR. S-Log3 is the extreme end of log and it crams a a curve of values int oa limited space that can be too much for 8bit. Sometimes it works well just like sometimes 8bit V-log works well on the GH4 or GH5. Other times its just a bit too much. Some users are ok wit hthat just like some users were ok with 4k 60p v-log in 8bit on the GH5. With great care it can do well but its just not going to be as robust or capture the color 100%.

                  This is why all the previous 8bit Sony cameras were a tad misleading claiming to be a 14+ stop video camera. The sensor may or may not be capable of 14+ stops but the video recording formats were not. Raw stills were likely high DR but not the video. Two very different things. Panasonic when they claim 12 stops on the GH5 they really are talking about both stills and video. Now many of us would have loved 3 different flavors of log on Panasonic. Sometimes having something like c.log1 is actually very nice to have. We just never really had an in between. It was rec709 or only the most extreme edge pushing v-log.

                  Comment


                    SAR thinks that its latest rumor on A7IV is 99% accurate - a 33 MPX sensor. Let's presume that, at $2,500, it'll have a 10-bit codec. The announcement is expected in October.

                    What does Panasonic have to do to counter A7IV at the same price? If it won't have 8K, it won't be able to counter on stills either. And, if it won't have Sony-Canon quality AF ...

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                      A7RIV, an unverified rumor as passed down by SAR - 33 MPX, 4K/60p, HD 240p, HDR, 5.5 stops of IBIS, super fast AF.

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                        Panasonic is proud to announce the development of the Lumix GH6 that combines the new Micro Four Thirds sensor and a new image processor. This flagship camera of the Lumix G Series will be commercialized for its release to world markets by the end of 2021.

                        As the next milestone in the evolution of the legacy of Lumix cameras, Panasonic is proud to announce that the development of the Lumix GH6 is underway. The flagship of the Lumix G Series and the latest model of the GH line, it is renowned for its stunning mobility and innovative video performance. Combining the high-speed sensor and Venus Engine image processor, the new GH6 realizes next-generation video expression. Providing 4:2:2 10-bit DCI 4K/60p recording capability, the Lumix GH6 achieves unlimited video recording when the camera is used under the certified operating temperature. It is reliable enough to record continuous footage for a desired duration. It also provides a 10-bit 4K 120p High Frame Rate (HFR) and Variable Frame Rate (VFR) for high resolution slow/quick motion video. Moreover, the GH6 records 10-bit 5.7K 60p video by taking full advantage of the newly developed Micro Four Thirds sensor. Accommodating a variety of recording modes and shooting assist functions, the GH6 enables photo/video hybrid-use for various purposes including films, music videos, documentaries and short clips for social media to meet the creators' needs.

                        Additional information regarding the release of this product will be announced at a later date

                        From B&H
                        • New Micro Four Thirds Sensor
                        • Updated Venus Engine Image Processor
                        • 5.7K 60p Video, 10-Bit Sampling
                        • DCI 4K 10-Bit 4:2:2, Unlimited Recording
                        • UHD 4K 120p with 10-Bit HFR
                        • Approximately $2500

                        Comment


                          Pretty much a MFT S1H.

                          10-bit 4K/120p is nice though for what it is.

                          But no AF mention likely = no improvement.

                          I never thought there would be, but just saying because you have to mention something like this to hold prospects over. Too many cameras running around.

                          I was hoping for 8K, even if it's mostly a gimmick for now. 8K/48fps would look really good on paper and certainly move units.

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                            And it's advertised as a video camera. It should edge A7IV specs on 4K 120 FPS vs. 60. But the AF goes to Sony. And so does the stills performance.

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                              We will not know about the autofocus until we hear more or when it comes out. I am sure there is more to follow other wise there would be more complete information.

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                                Not happening, ha.

                                If Panasonic would like great AF, they need to give up IBIS, bit depth and/or HFRs, and it's too late because the feature cards were drawn and the ones who make their own sensors control their own sensors.

                                This is a weak development announcement. Company just doesn't know how to do anything exciting.

                                Canon's R5 teaser broke the internet in comparison.

                                a7SIII encored.

                                Even RED's new $25,000 swag - which most who are writing about it won't purchase - has 18 pages in 24 hours. They know how to create hype.

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