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    #76
    Originally posted by Tom Roper View Post
    On the other hand, if Mr. High End DP has a choice of an Arri 65 I assume he's going to take it, which as a movie goer is harder for me to watch than S-35. I want to see some cinematic details, not just an exclusive focus on the subject with the background bokeh'd out. If he's going to shoot that way Lawrence of Arabia could be filmed in a cubby.
    No, there are plenty of people turning down those choices.

    Look at Brawley's tests for the great - blind camera/lens tests to determine which system created the most desirable aesthetic for the piece.

    And then at the end of the day, he was mandated to use one he didnt choose.

    Then he chose 12ks over milfs for his recent feature.

    Real DPs are not as easily influenced by clickbait specs
    www.VideoAbe.com

    "If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech." - Noam Chomsky

    Comment


      #77
      Originally posted by ahalpert View Post
      The argument others make is that a FF camera can become an S35 camera by cropping. But that's not really true, not without penalties
      But that's that backwards thinking again...

      Some of us are getting ready for iPhones to replace half of the world's cameras and work yet you're thinking about some questionable "penalties" that no one (0%) will be able to spot if it's done correctly inside the camera.

      Talking about great high-resolution sensors with amazing images, not potatoes.

      Have seen this time and time again going all the way back to the 2015 with the a7RII. You personally saw it on your S1.

      These low-end cameras are perfectly fine in their S35 modes, so cinema cameras will undoubtedly have no trouble either.

      Comment


        #78
        So NorBro wants magical full-frame. Clear enough, but unlikely in a GH6.

        Id like to know what any GH6 will do to GH5S prices. Dip or crash? I wasnt watching this market when previous GH models arrived.

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by ahalpert View Post
          I'm not saying will he/she choose S35 over ff. Assume they've already chosen S35. Will he choose to shoot cropped on a FF camera or will they choose a proper S35 camera?

          The argument others make is that a FF camera can become an S35 camera by cropping. But that's not really true, not without penalties
          For convenience and practicality alone he's going to shoot with a regular S35, not going to use S-35 crop from a FF camera. I can't see a marquee DP doing S-35 crop, no.

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by NorBro View Post
            But that's that backwards thinking again...

            Some of us are getting ready for iPhones to replace half of the world's cameras and work yet you're thinking about some questionable "penalties" that no one (0%) will be able to spot if it's done correctly inside the camera.

            Talking about great high-resolution sensors with amazing images, not potatoes.

            Have seen this time and time again going all the way back to the 2015 with the a7RII. You personally saw it on your S1.

            These low-end cameras are perfectly fine in their S35 modes, so cinema cameras will undoubtedly have no trouble either.
            The S1 was noticeably softer and noisier in crop mode. The red scarlet was likewise waaaay noisier in crop mode. Among other issues, I believe that the aa filter is not optimized for cropping

            "Backwards thinking" - I dont appreciate your demeaning characterizations. If you disagree, just make your point
            www.VideoAbe.com

            "If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech." - Noam Chomsky

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by Less_is_more View Post
              So NorBro wants magical full-frame. Clear enough, but unlikely in a GH6.

              I’d like to know what any GH6 will do to GH5S prices. Dip or crash? I wasn’t watching this market when previous GH models arrived.
              ha...NorBro doesn't have any plans on personally purchasing another camera ever again besides an iPhone.

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by ahalpert View Post
                The S1 was noticeably softer and noisier in crop mode. The red scarlet was likewise waaaay noisier in crop mode

                "Backwards thinking" - I dont appreciate your demeaning characterizations. If you disagree, just make your point
                I don't care that you don't appreciate it. Stop quoting me and disagreeing with everything every other day because you're bored.

                Say whatever you want to say in the thread without adding my initial posts above all of your responses making me feel like I have to respond to everything.

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by Tom Roper View Post
                  For convenience and practicality alone he's going to shoot with a regular S35, not going to use S-35 crop from a FF camera. I can't see a marquee DP doing S-35 crop, no.
                  But don't you think people, the world changes? What are your thoughts?

                  Many DPs weren't too crazy about digital either.

                  Now it might seem asinine for the best-of-the-best to use a cropped mode when they have access to the best-of-the-best that's not really optimized to do this, but if a future camera can do everything - and do it really well - you don't think that might be something someone will really consider? So much flexibility for storytelling.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by NorBro View Post
                    I don't care that you don't appreciate it. Stop quoting me and disagreeing with everything every other day because you're bored.

                    Say whatever you want to say in the thread without adding my initial posts above all of your responses making me feel like I have to respond to everything.
                    Do you think everyone will be shooting large format someday? Or will it be larger than that?

                    Of course people will be cropping FF sensors sometimes even on big budget stuff but my guess is that there will be enough demand for proper S35 cameras to keep the format alive. Hence: coexistence
                    www.VideoAbe.com

                    "If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech." - Noam Chomsky

                    Comment


                      #85
                      In short, IMO, I just don't see a need for S35 sensors moving into the future as full-frame chips are being produced on a regular basis.

                      It's not that I prefer full-frame (I mean I want an amazing iPhone FGS), I just think the S35 sensor is now in an awkward position (agreeing with what filmguy said before).

                      If the Japanese get serious about improving their MFT cameras, I think MFT is a much better fit for society along with phones, fixed-lens cameras and bigger sensor cinema cameras.

                      I don't think everyone will be shooting large format someday unless cameras with smaller sensors simply stop being made forcing people (and machines) to adapt.

                      I can't picture affordable, elite large-format video specs right now in my mind although it may happen in my lifetime and undoubtedly will in the future (I'm not impressed with the GFX100).

                      Comment


                        #86
                        I agree with what you say about manufacturers potentially forcing people to use (and crop if they want) larger sensors because they stop making smaller ones. That could happen with full-frame. Not everyone would be happy about it.

                        MFT never really took off. Fuji's strategy has been medium format and APS-C, which I think makes even more sense (for video, not stills) than a full-frame/MFT option. Both because S35 is way more established than MFT and because medium format gets you into that selective-focus wide-shot territory with a fashion photography feel if that's all what you want. But generally I agree that no 2 adjacent formats are that different from each other (mft to S35, ff to mf) - you really need to go 2 over to get more than an incrementally different aesthetic. Sure, that could be FF/MFT but MFT is not that popular.

                        In my ideal world, there are still cameras available in every format

                        I was kidding about large format. It's a beautiful medium but the focal lengths are huge and it's got precious little DOF. My point is just that sensor size growth must stop somewhere
                        www.VideoAbe.com

                        "If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech." - Noam Chomsky

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by NorBro View Post
                          But don't you think people, the world changes? What are your thoughts?

                          Many DPs weren't too crazy about digital either.

                          Now it might seem asinine for the best-of-the-best to use a cropped mode when they have access to the best-of-the-best that's not really optimized to do this, but if a future camera can do everything - and do it really well - you don't think that might be something someone will really consider? So much flexibility for storytelling.
                          I'm not qualified for this. I mean, no I don't think think there is an inherent objection but rather just more of a practical consideration of taking the path of least resistance for 85-90% and the road less travelled for the other 10-15%. He has the desire to explore and be creative but he has the deadlines, the schedules and the budget pressures. So how do we know at this point how reliable and what is the ease of use of this future camera that does everything? I think I would be wanting to work in some of the new but also hedging it with the tried and true of the old. If I wanted to explore the Arri 65 it would be hard for me to push back against the producer wanting the regular Alexa if I thought it would simplify the work. I'd have to have a very strong belief in something like the iphone12 max before I'd go down that path. I just don't. And then there's the actors. I've heard some of them can't perform in front of a small lens, need to put on a large cine matte box to get them to perform.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            I haven't seen much of a difference with shallower DOF with MF vs. full-frame.

                            I think because of the way they are both used and how fast many lenses are for FF (f/1.2, f/1.4) versus almost everything being f/2.8 and f/4+ for medium format.

                            MF can get shallower wider though which provides that nice, soughtafter aesthetic.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by ahalpert View Post
                              Do you think everyone will be shooting large format someday? Or will it be larger than that? ...
                              I just read news about a new/old type of a lens being worked on ... something that would make the larger format lenses more tolerable in terms of size and weight ... hmm, where the heck did I read it? ... on some rumor site? ...

                              In any case, an 8K RGB sensor is ~ 100 MPX and that's where it's going. Sony already makes 102 and 150 MPX MF sensors (102 of GFX 100 even has a quality auto focus). When Chivo decided on Alexa65 for the Revenant, he ended up using it with the old Hasselblad 65mm primes. 100 MPX can work for the full frame but the high end is likely to be in medium format. Considering that 8K Raw FF is already being sold for under $4,000, the next generation of sensors and electronics is on its way.

                              And the depth of field is an artistic choice anyway. 65mm film cameras dominated the theatrical releases after the war. 8K will bring the format back into mainstream.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by ahalpert View Post
                                The S1 was noticeably softer and noisier in crop mode. The red scarlet was likewise waaaay noisier in crop mode. Among other issues, I believe that the aa filter is not optimized for cropping
                                This was not my experience using APS-C crop mode when shooting 4K, only when shooting 1080p. Maybe I didn't look close enough as I moved to the S1H pretty quickly. Could you elaborate on your experience here?

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