How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?

[morgan_moore]

this post gave me heart palpitations.

And thats what manufacs need to do because we all have something that is pretty amazing.

BTW.. those are places MFT could probably go easier than FF.

[DLD]

End of 2021 is kind of far away...

And, by then, a lot of other cameras will come out too. Plenty of rumors, plenty of gossip.

[Bassman2003]

No doubt, if one is set on buying a GH5, the GH5 II is going to be a great option. For most of the world who already own a GH5, the MKII is kind of hard to justify today. A year or two ago it would have been a compelling offer. If they offered a MKII/GH6 trade up scheme it might get me to act as a GH5 owner. I would like to research the wifi hotspot implementation to see if there are any uses for live switching.

[jdv]

Looks like the notable upgrades are 5G wireless streaming (when wirelessly tethered to a smartphone), 4K 10-bit 60p C4k, and new types of subject recognition for AF

You forgot the air quotes around "AF".

Some nice little improvements for the GH5II, but let's be real - most of them should have already come to the GH5 via firmware. No reason why they couldn't add the ability to have -18db for sound recording, or the ability to resize waveforms, or seeing the vectorscope during white balance - all should have been already given to the GH5 with firmware.

Adding a "varicam display"? Hey, way to catch up to the Oly EM1 MII from 4 1/2 years ago.

And hey, speaking of the EM1 MII, that's a camera guaranteed to have better AF then the GH5 II (and maybe even the GH6). And that camera's going for $600 lightly used. That there is still no phase detect AF for a camera aimed squarely at youtube content creators is truly silly.

Why no dual ISO? If you're still behind the pocket 4k and the EM1MII in areas that matter, and the majority of improvements are ones that should have come via firmware to the GH5 years ago, then you know this is stop-gap at best.

Far as the GH6 announcement... I doubt there could be a more underwhelming "event". No pics. No phase detect No MSRP pricing. No mention of dual ISO or built-in NDs. When the biggest new feature - 5.7K resolution - is a feature no one really wanted, you know there's a lot of smoke. I mean 4K 120 is nice... but when several full frame cameras already do that, the raison d'etre for a 2022 release is baffling.

Even more so if the rumored price - $2500 - is accurate. If the GH6 was a loss leader, I could see it being popular - but not at $2500 (or more). Even $2000 would be a bridge too far.

YMMV of course - the features of the GH5II or potential of the GH6 may be something you can't wait to buy. But considering what's already available in MFT, these announcements are hardly something that would seriously tempt someone looking to buy into a system for the first time vs buying into full frame. Nor is it something that even a significant minority of current MFT would likely spend $2500 on (especially if no dual ISO, built-in ND, or phase detect AF).

Not disappointed per se as I didn't expect much more from Panasonic, but man this is underwhelming - and would have been so even it were announced a year ago.

[filmguy123]

This is a huge vote of confidence for the m43 system. Two weeks ago we were worried about doom and gloom with nothing but a paltry m2 update. Today, we know that the GH6 is coming within 6 months, a new pro lens to complement the fantastic 10-25 1.7 is coming, and there is an S1H II is in the rumors (showing that in both of their formats, Panasonic is finally playing ball with more consistent updates).

The real news on the GH6 is forthcoming. I expect we will see EVF and LCD updates, IQ enhancements (new processor + new sensor), S1H features translated over, etc. Already on the m2 we're seeing improved IBIS to 6.5 stops, ProRes RAW output, notably improved AF. On the GH6, might we see DR improvements, full vlog curve, an "S" model for lowlight (or perhaps the lowlight of the S will be possible in the same body as the new higher resolution sensor?) Could we get a built in VND (the S1H II rumors are saying that camera will include one, maybe the GH6 will too?).

As far as a strong product line-up, the GH5m2 isn't for the vast majority of GH5 owners to upgrade to. I see this model being a flexible price model in the future for Panasonic to offer a VERY strong gateway drug into the system. I suspect the price will drop sometime next year, Panasonic could easily offer this camera for $1000 to hook people into the GHx system after the GH6 is out in the wild. How compelling of a platform for a lot of smaller content creators: a GH6 A-camera, plus a couple GH5m2 bodies. Have we forgotten all the benefits of these Panasonic bodies over blackmagic? The GH5 is still one of the best little workhorse cameras on the market and the M2 gives it *much* longer legs.

With the recent BGH-1, a GH5m2, and a GH6 by years end - plus 2 modern pro lenses, the system is looking plenty healthy to my eye. There are an incredible number of native m43 lenses, and everything imaginable is adaptable via speed boosters or dumb boosters.

M43, as long as they keep it modern and updated, is probably my favorite platform as a solo operator. And I say this as an EVA1 and S1H owner with a set of Zeiss Milvus glass and an EasyRig and all the other goodies.

In a world where smart phone cameras are rapidly becoming "good enough" I'm shocked more people don't see the utility in the GHx line. I can tell you right now, the GH6 with the 10-25 + 25-50 will be my travel setup of choice even with all my other gear. The fact that I could bring, in one single international sized carry on, THREE m43 bodies with a 5-6 lenses setup, batteries, mics, and others accessories for a week long shoot is pretty hard to beat. That, and the kit is small and light enough to use efficiently as a solo operator, and very discreet as well.

The big thing I am most curious to see is what the new sensor and processing LOOK like. I hope we get a less processed/digitized look from the GH6, better highlight roll-off, more DR. And I am still crossing my fingers for the hail marry of internal VND.

[DLD]

.. Far as the GH6 announcement... I doubt there could be a more underwhelming "event". No pics..

In fairness, there's half a pic.

The AF seems improved on GH-5II also. No phase detect but likely a superior processor to the previous generations.

But, with GH-5II priced at $1,700, it's pretty unlikely that GH-6 will come in a lower bracket. GH-6 should play well to those with an existing MFT ecosystem but many have moved on.

[Ron Evans]

For all the people unimpressed what do you want that would make you buy ? To me the GH5II is just this years version of the GH5 just like a new car each year. Similar name not much change but improvements in some equipment. Want really more features buy the upscale model. Depending on what is needed the GH5S is still an improvement over the GH5II. Better low light, wider field of view now RAW. For people like me lack of IBIS or AF not a problem as I do not need either. Don't take still either. So one needs to be specific. Actually to me the GH6 looks quite interesting if it came with RAW and V-Log. I do not need shallow depth of field either as I want everything on the stage in focus from the back of the room.

[Guest]

And thats what manufacs need to do because we all have something that is pretty amazing.

BTW.. those are places MFT could probably go easier than FF.

At this point, I think frame rate is more resolution dependent than sensor size. So, not sure about that. though, heat dissipation is likely easier. So, 500fps, would certainly be a leap forward.


the 10x to 20x zooms that are par focal and servo optional, that is what would cause me to invest in M43. They wouldn't have to even update the GH5.

[Clermond]

End of 2021 is kind of far away. Why would one buy the GH5 II with the GH6 on the way? .

because you get a decent live stream option plus an addition to what you own if you are already in the GH4/5 segment

[Thomas Smet]

You forgot the air quotes around "AF".

Some nice little improvements for the GH5II, but let's be real - most of them should have already come to the GH5 via firmware. No reason why they couldn't add the ability to have -18db for sound recording, or the ability to resize waveforms, or seeing the vectorscope during white balance - all should have been already given to the GH5 with firmware.

Adding a "varicam display"? Hey, way to catch up to the Oly EM1 MII from 4 1/2 years ago.

And hey, speaking of the EM1 MII, that's a camera guaranteed to have better AF then the GH5 II (and maybe even the GH6). And that camera's going for $600 lightly used. That there is still no phase detect AF for a camera aimed squarely at youtube content creators is truly silly.

Why no dual ISO? If you're still behind the pocket 4k and the EM1MII in areas that matter, and the majority of improvements are ones that should have come via firmware to the GH5 years ago, then you know this is stop-gap at best.

Far as the GH6 announcement... I doubt there could be a more underwhelming "event". No pics. No phase detect No MSRP pricing. No mention of dual ISO or built-in NDs. When the biggest new feature - 5.7K resolution - is a feature no one really wanted, you know there's a lot of smoke. I mean 4K 120 is nice... but when several full frame cameras already do that, the raison d'etre for a 2022 release is baffling.

Even more so if the rumored price - $2500 - is accurate. If the GH6 was a loss leader, I could see it being popular - but not at $2500 (or more). Even $2000 would be a bridge too far.

YMMV of course - the features of the GH5II or potential of the GH6 may be something you can't wait to buy. But considering what's already available in MFT, these announcements are hardly something that would seriously tempt someone looking to buy into a system for the first time vs buying into full frame. Nor is it something that even a significant minority of current MFT would likely spend $2500 on (especially if no dual ISO, built-in ND, or phase detect AF).

Not disappointed per se as I didn't expect much more from Panasonic, but man this is underwhelming - and would have been so even it were announced a year ago.

I'm not sure what kind of expectations you have for an already pretty solid camera. The GH5 is five years old and still does things other cameras cannot do to this day. What you want may not be possible. Like dual native ISO on a densely packed m43 sensor. I'm not sure how far they can push the circuits to make it worth it. Should the cost increase just to add a half a stop?

I have said this before but what made the GH5S possible was the larger pixels on the 10MP sensor. It was the increased sensitivity of each pixel that made dual native ISO possible. Its not just something one slaps into a camera for free. Plus not everyone shoots in the dark. There are these things called lights that people use to make their videos look better. Dual native ISO is cool to have and I really like it on my P4k bu it is far from a perfect alternative to using lights. It would be cool to have on the GH5 or GH6 but I'm just not so sure it is possible right now.

Not everything can be done via firmware. There is this misconception that firmware is a magical programming language where anything can happen. Thats just not true and sometimes things can only be done within what the firmware was designed to handle. It also comes down to processing power. The GH5 already has a very impressive processor considering what it can do for unlimited recording without ever overheating. Very few cameras can match what the GH5 does for processing and not have a heat problem. Panasonic likely hit a ceiling for what the processor could do on the GH5. Perhaps one or two tiny things could have snuck in via firmware but the GH5 is also a five year old camera now. One thing I know for sure that the processor absolutely could not handle is 4k 60p 10bit.

See Panasonic has always preferred to make stable cameras. Cameras that just work flawlessly. The rarely crash and rarely overheat. They push what they can while still keeping the cameras 100% stable and reliable. That matters to many people. Especially those shooting live video for money. Datarates were always held back for this very reason. They stuck with what was realistic for the widest range of users and still provide a stable camera that would not stop recording in the middle of something important.

If you already own a GH5 you likely don't really need the GH5mk2 and are better off waiting six months for the GH6. Yes $2,500 seems like a lot but a lot of cameras now cost more than that and still don't do everything the GH cameras can do. Just moving to FF doesn't make a camera worth more either. I have said this before but FF is not superior or better. Its different. It is a different option to capture images. All sensor sizes are a tradeoff. m43 sucks for low light and fast and ultra wide lenses. FF however sucks for manual focus and telephoto. When it comes to a well lit production there is actually very little quality difference between a good m43, s35mm and FF camera. Thanks to focal reducers m43 is not all that far behind FF anyway. My point is a lot of other cameras will also be $2,500 or more. Yes the S5 will cost as much as the GH6 but you can't just look at sensor size. They are both equally capable video cameras when used for their strengths. The GH6 will have advantages over the S5. Telephoto being one of those advantages as well as adapting a wide range of lens mounts. EF lenses do not work for continuous autofocus at all when adapter to the S series cameras. They will however work fine on the GH6 for auto focus. So right there any EF lens owner will have a huge advantage to use the GH6 over the S5. Not to mention the native lens costs when many out there already own great m43 lens collections.

Even if you find a killer FF body that appears to do more than the GH6 for less money what is going to be the cost to buy all new lenses for that new mirrorless system? A mirrorless system I may add will likely never work with any other mirrorless mount.

The GH5mk2 exists to replace a five year old camera and provide another professional option for new users. Existing users that do not need the features of a GH6 may decide to sell their GH5 and upgrade to the mk2 but I honestly don't think that was the intended market. Its really just a way to provide a professional option without keeping a five year old camera on the market.

[Thomas Smet]

In fairness, there's half a pic.

The AF seems improved on GH-5II also. No phase detect but likely a superior processor to the previous generations.

But, with GH-5II priced at $1,700, it's pretty unlikely that GH-6 will come in a lower bracket. GH-6 should play well to those with an existing MFT ecosystem but many have moved on.

Some have moved on. I'm not sure you can say many have. I bought a Canon M6 but still have my GH4 here and a P4k that I use my M43 lenses on. Thanks to the P4k a lot more people than you think have bought m43 lenses.

[stoneinapond]

I'm with filmguy. Very positive announcement about the GH6 and landing exactly where I thought it would price-wise. Money already waiting....

[Ron Evans]

I think one has to realize that the GH5 and GH5S can do 4K 10bit 4:2:2 out of the HDMI but they cannot record internally as well. Clearly a limitation of the processing of those original processors. However if you get a Ninja V you can record 4K 60P 10 bit 4:2:2 just fine. That is what I do from both the GH5 and GH5S. They are always on a tripod in my case so no problem. Yes an improvement would be to do that internally but if you are going to have a monitor anyway then you may as well use the Ninja V and solve the problem. Even record RAW for the GH5S in a couple of weeks !! The closest choice for my application would be the Pocket cameras and at the moment that would be there 6K Pro. Even worse for some of the criticism in this thread. No image stabilizer or autofocus worth talking about ! However they are a bit like having a camera AND a Ninja V in one unit. For my application this may make the 6K Pro a little more attractive if I had to buy everything. However I already have two Ninja V with sync units and MFT lenses so a GH6 may be more cost effective if it records RAW, 5.7K 60P.

If the GH6 had RAW output to Ninja V and could also record internally a backup at the same time on SD cards that would fully satisfy my needs I think.

[jdv]

I'm not sure what kind of expectations you have for an already pretty solid camera.

Well the first hope is that Panasonic would simply issue most of these improvements via firmware, as was totally possible. A bankrupt Olympus still issuing major firmware updates, while perhaps Panasonic's only true remaining competitor, Blackmagic, is doing the same for the base model pocket 4K.

Another expectation is that is a corporation isn't going to go that route then to at least issue a model with comparatively few tweaks in a 3 year timeline, not 5. This market segment clearly has a faster update cycle then 5 years.

Another expectation would be to be the camera which most people on this thread wanted 2 years ago - a GH5s with IBIS. This camera isn't it, nor is the GH6.

The expectation is that Panasonic would realize what everyone else in the camera-world already knows - few people buy into MFT format to take pictures, particularly the Panasonic models.

In others words, I'd have expected both new cameras to be video-centric and to be issued much sooner than late 2021/2022, and to be far cheaper than full frame competitors. None of those very reasonable expectations were met.

For all the people unimpressed what do you want that would make you buy ?

Pretty clear at this point the only real way the format can compete is with lower prices and new lenses... which aren't coming. There's little to nothing that Panasonic is going to provide that isn't already available in both MFT & FF formats, particularly for wide/fast/cheap glass.

There's no affordable 12mm or wider 1.8 primes; the true gem of the lens lineup is their 1.4 12mm (which I own). But it's still $1300 news. A brilliant piece of glass, but hardly one priced to induce new owners to jump into the format. This lack of new glass is perhaps the biggest proof that MFT is an afterthought.

And there's the timing - seems like many, if not all, of the improvements to the GH5 could have been introduced 2 years ago. But of course Panasonic had its hands full with its full frame lineup.

So it's absolutely fair to say that Panasonic could not do both line-ups justice simultaneously... because they haven't. While I'm glad to see 2 new cameras - well, one as there's certainly no guarantee the GH6 is actually released - these offerings offer too little too late to expect much life to be pumped into MFT, especially from young shooters looking to jump into a system.

It's not that the GH5II - or even the GH5 - is a bad camera. It'll be very nice. But it, nor the apparently GH6, does anything meaningfully different than its competition, while still firmly in last place for AF, a feature that most smaller companies consider an absolute must.

Given the above, I'm guessing very few people will actually buy either - the GH5II isn't much better then what it's replacing & is already rendered obsolete by the GH6, while the GH6 is priced at or above existing full frame cameras which offer most/all of the same features. And full frame isn't going to sit still while Panasonic fills in the gaps for the GH6.

I know I sound negative. It's because I am. I've owned at least a 1/2 dozen Panasonic products and want them to be better than they have been this last 4 years. But it is what it is. By operating two formats without the resources to properly support either, they've brought products that are significantly lacking when comparing competitors & pricing.

Put another way, the GH5II announcement would have been a little underwhelming 2 years ago. Now it looks like polishing the rails of the Titanic.

[Ron Evans]

JDV so your answer is cheaper prices and more lenses ? Those are not features. Full frame cameras are not cheaper. Definitely not if you include lenses. I would accept people would want better autofocus ? Valid for the handheld run and gun crowd. Of no importance to me. To me the GH5II is this years car model with new paint and radio. Lots of people get sucked in to that especially if you discontinue last years model ? You need to be really specific to convince me you are not just complaining for no good reason. No I do not think Panasonic could have done this two years ago. They were ahead with the technology of the GH5 by some way and I think realized that to make any real improvement it would need totally new technology that takes time. Since more people are streaming I think that function will be key to the success of the GH5II. Again not important to me.

For my application competitors are the BM Pocket cameras. No point in looking at the 4K as it is really close to my GH5S ( may even use the same sensor ) with Ninja V especially now it is getting RAW. The BM 6K Pro looks interesting but would require me to buy new lenses, batteries etc. I expect would cost me more than twice the cost of a GH6 to rig. If it had the sensor from the 12K restricted to 8K I may be interested. Also I want deep depth of field not shallow depth so actually MFT is better for my application .