Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    The Samsung isocell gh1 is an 8K phone sensor. If an M43 sensor had the same size photosites, it would be 25.7K

    https://www.google.com/search?q=smal...obile&ie=UTF-8
    www.VideoAbe.com

    "If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech." - Noam Chomsky

    Comment


      #32
      8K is one of the last thing I want. Storage and bandwidth hog, poorer editing performance and/or need for proxies and thus complicated workflow, and reduction in light gathering at the hardware level.

      4K looks spectacular even blown up on giant screens. With people watching so much on mobile devices, and with AI upscaling becoming more of a thing, I have no idea why I would want 8K anytime soon for the vast majority of content. I see no pragmatic value when there are already a number of cameras that can shoot close to 6K raw (EVA1, S1H) on a larger sensor, plenty for recropping/framing. I just think 8K is a niche thing, or reserved for workflows like RED with vfx, cinema production, massive sensors and workflows, etc. It seems like a completely backwards fit for the sort of demographic a GH6 would appeal to.

      Give me native 4K at a 1:1 pixel ratio, or downrezzed 6K at most for a cleaner 4K like Panasonics other cameras, but if the selling point of the GH6 is 8K I will be severely disappointed. No, annoyed. I will be severely annoyed.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by filmguy123 View Post
        Wondering with all of the low cost APS-C and FF camera options - how interested are you in the GH6 at all anymore?

        The body/size weight advantage is hardly a thing now. Spec wise, thereís a limit to what they can do to woo us - m43 had an advantage of high resolution and bitrates with the smaller sensor trade off previously. But now weíve got 422 10-bit 4k60p everywhere, and many donít need more resolution, stronger codec, higher FPS.

        So, are you still interested much in a next generation, and if so why?

        Iím on the edge... but I think I am, primarily because of the small lightweight lenses which are simply a dream to travel with and I appreciate the lightweight body. Iíd also be taken by internal 4k120p in 10-bit 422 and internal ProRes RAW or something to that effect. Or built in electronic VND.
        Yes.

        In fact I'm very close to finally upgrading my GH4 to a GH5S.

        I like m43 and it was never about cost or the body size. In fact many were glad when the GH cameras got larger and were taken more seriously for their solid build.

        I honestly don't really see the appeal of FF for video. APS-C/S35mm is the standard I strive for and that's something super easy to do with m43.

        I like Panasonic because they almost always do video right. Yeah maybe a bit digital looking but I'm also ok with that. I think Panasonic delivers a more realistic look out of the box without any compromises. I also own a bunch of m43 lenses and like what those lenses can do.

        Also the sensor size was never as much about body size as it was about lens size. A good 35-100 f2.8 m43 lens vs a massive 70-200 FF lens is a huge size difference. My bag carrying a m43 kit is vastly smaller and easier to take on trips vs a FF camera even if the FF body is a bit smaller.

        Shooting telephoto is also a lot more complex and expensive on FF cameras.

        I really wanted to like the Panasonic S series but the lenses are insanely too expensive. I have little to no interest in moving to Sony or Fuji and starting over with lenses. The new Canon mirrorless cameras seem nice but its still Canon and I lost respect for them years ago. Plus if I'm going to invest in a new set of lenses its going to be EF lenses that can be adapted to many cinema cameras.

        So yeah if Panasonic does the GH6 right I would totally be interested in it. I don't always need raw and frankly think its an obsession for most people that don't really realize they don't have much more than what ProRes provides unless they are doing some insanely heavy grading. Even then well done ProRes can go a long way. Compression wise ProRes itself doesn't provide a massive advantage over 10bit 4:2:2 Panasonic formats. The Panasonic formats are not as smooth to edit but I usually optimize them anyway in FCPX. I would love if Panasonic could use ProRes instead of h264 or h265 but at the same time love that 150mbps can have most of the visual quality of 700mbps ProRes.

        The one thing I wish I could get out of these camera is 4:4:4. Doesn't even have to be raw. Just a 4:4:4 flavor of h265.

        There are a lot of shooters out there that have no need for raw. Many that have it don't even really need it. Many fell in love with Panasonic cameras for a lot more than just sensor size. Its the entire eco system and the overall look and user experience.

        I considered really hard getting a Pocket 4k instead but I also shoot stills. The Gh5s has much lower resolution stills but they still look very good and as long as they can provide solid 8x10" or 11x14" prints I'm good with it. I tend to prefer to not crop and reframe in post anyway so shooting the image exactly as I need it is not a big problem. Would be nice every now and then to have more resolution but for now I'm perfectly fine with what it can do.

        If I do move to FF for stills it will likely be the S5 if Panasonic can produce some good yet affordable L mount lenses. I'm not investing anything into a lens mount I think will die in a few years. Too many darn new lens mounts out there right now. Another reason why I'm going to just stick with m43 for now or tried and true EF lenses that can be used in a lot of different systems. I'm going to wait it out and see where the dust settles once this new lens mount war is over. My current m43 lenses are great and still plenty of great options for me out there. When that isn't enough I know I can move to EF lenses. I also know I can adapt EF lenses to a L mount camera but there are certain compromises to that route right now and don't feel like investing in a system full of compromises.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by ahalpert View Post
          The Samsung isocell gh1 is an 8K phone sensor. If an M43 sensor had the same size photosites, it would be 25.7K

          https://www.google.com/search?q=smal...obile&ie=UTF-8
          That's interesting. 8k would be big selling point but it be expensive overhaul. I believe camera makers are moving to full frame because it's easier to have one size sensor and build around it cameras at various price points that use the same lens mount and body rather than to support and develop two different cameras in parallel. There are too many choices in the marketplace. I saw that the GH5 was out of stock at BH. It could very well be that even though we have misgivings, the camera might still sell well and Panasonic will leave it as is and produce it as long as there is enough demand.
          Last edited by Peter C.; 10-19-2020, 04:09 PM.

          Comment


            #35
            8K would be of zero interest for me. 422 10 bit for high frame rates and 4K at 120 fps would be killer. Electronic ND would be died-and-gone-to-heaven level great. I don't need internal raw if I can have a solid 10 bit codec.
            www.markoconnell.org

            Comment


              #36
              Sony has had an 8K MFT sensor for over a year.

              https://petapixel.com/2019/09/27/son...-8k-30p-video/

              But Panasonic decided to go full frame. With less resolution too.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by ahalpert View Post
                The Samsung isocell gh1 is an 8K phone sensor. If an M43 sensor had the same size photosites, it would be 25.7K ...
                An interesting tidbit from Canon today with its 250 MPX APS-C sensor. One could look at it as a warning shot to Sony, "If you want a cartel, don't mess around with us". Sony must have been pretty angry with R5 updates actually turning it into a reasonably effective working unit and, if rumors are correct, are rushing their response with an 8K 50 MPX camera with no overheating issues. And, with Oly more or less dropping out, Fuji allotted the APS-C and the MF niches, and Panasonic and Nikon struggling with the new mounts, it's Canon vs. Sony in the full frame market and Canon must feel confident that they can survive that battle royal. And that could mean the end of the cartel.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by markoconnell View Post
                  8K would be of zero interest for me. 422 10 bit for high frame rates and 4K at 120 fps would be killer. Electronic ND would be died-and-gone-to-heaven level great. I don't need internal raw if I can have a solid 10 bit codec.
                  I don't really need 8K either. I'm just saying that it could differentiate the camera and play to the strengths of M43. someone would want it.
                  www.VideoAbe.com

                  "If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech." - Noam Chomsky

                  Comment


                    #39
                    I would like 8K. I shoot now with GH5 and GH5S UHD 60P both fixed on tripods in the theatre. I then edit in HD and create both Bluray and DVD. 8K camera would mean I could shoot with one camera and get closer in for crop/zoom/pan etc which is what I do now but with two cameras at different framing. I have no interest in 8K output.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      I think there is definitely a place for a GH6 if implemented properly. I'm waiting to see what develops knowing that if nothing materializes early next year, an S5 is available.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Ron Evans View Post
                        I would like 8K. I shoot now with GH5 and GH5S UHD 60P both fixed on tripods in the theatre. I then edit in HD and create both Bluray and DVD. 8K camera would mean I could shoot with one camera and get closer in for crop/zoom/pan etc which is what I do now but with two cameras at different framing. I have no interest in 8K output.
                        Lens issues would sneak in eventually as you use only the corner portion of a lens that may already struggle to solve 8k of resolution. All lenses are softer in the corners and the more the lens is stopped down the worse they tend to get. Using 8k for a HD corner is likely not going to look spectacular. To be fair you likely wouldn't use the far corners but you could still see an odd unbalance of softness on one side of the frame vs the opposite side.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Thomas Smet View Post
                          Lens issues would sneak in eventually as you use only the corner portion of a lens that may already struggle to solve 8k of resolution. All lenses are softer in the corners and the more the lens is stopped down the worse they tend to get. Using 8k for a HD corner is likely not going to look spectacular. To be fair you likely wouldn't use the far corners but you could still see an odd unbalance of softness on one side of the frame vs the opposite side.
                          I agree. I had a friend with the same idea, setup a 4k mirrorless in a fixed position and zoom in post. Resolution isn't a substitute for the proper optical lens reach. Fine for the wide shot to shoot loose so no one gets out of the frame and tighten it up after. The proper camera for theater is a camcorder with a servo zoom with plenty of reach.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            having a flatter field curvature and good corner-to-corner performance would help.

                            anyway, cropping close shots from a wide is obviously a compromise. a hit in quality is to be expected. but if you end up with usable close shots of 2 or 3 actors across the entire stage with a single camera and op, that could be a win. a servo camera will only get one shot at a time and lose time reframing. you will easily miss stuff.

                            i'm not saying i'd necessarily go the 8k route, but it opens up intriguing possibilities.
                            www.VideoAbe.com

                            "If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech." - Noam Chomsky

                            Comment


                              #44
                              I'd be very interested if it had an improved and updated sensor, video & stills specific mode switch (like Fuji) , tally lights and a large quality VF in the vein of a GX9- as in it tilts up.

                              Of course what I really want/ wanted was the DC-BHG1 with a quality, (much less any LCD panel...), improved sensor, tally lights, video centric menu system and a form factor that is overall much more video/motion centric form factor, than a GH6 will ever be capable of.

                              The austere, bare bones, minimalist, stripped down DC-BHG1 is a head scratcher. While Panasonic touts it's versatility, it is really lacking in the OMB operator realm IMO. It definitely seems to be weighted in favor of studio and streaming applications. At this point Panasonics M43 lineup is two versions of the same problem- cameras that are compromised for cine/video/motion work. Albeit , compromised for different reasons.

                              Here's hoping for a AF100 successor or a decidedly video centric GH6 to come out in the near future. ;-/. For now, I'll continue on with my beloved GH5.
                              Last edited by hotchkiss; 10-22-2020, 01:27 PM.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Interested? Yes. Hopeful for enough improvements to make me buy one? Unlikely.

                                There are 3 major downfalls from the GH5: poor dynamic range, poor color science, and poor auto-focus. Not sure if Panasonic will - or can - fix any of them.

                                While color science is subjective, now that I've had a chance to directly compare the Panasonic look to the Olympus, it's simply no contest if you are seeking to use an image straight out of camera. I've shown comparison footage to several people in the last 3 weeks, and every single one of them - from industry pros to "normal" friends - picked the Olympus in a blind test.

                                As in all of them. The image from the Oly is so superior to the GH5 it is borderline shocking. The Oly colors & grain looks filmic, while the GH5 looked wooden and "video-y" by comparison. Being better on paper - which the GH5 obviously is - only means something if the results are correspondingly better too. For my uses, the GH5 is vastly inferior to the EM1 Mii/iii.

                                I'd actually rank Panasonic dead last at this point in color science now that Sony is implementing new colors on their latest bodies. The Panny colors aren't "bad" but they don't sing either. In any event, they do not appear to have not changed in years. The GX85 has the exact same color science as the GH5. If there's no improvement to the color science in new Panasonic bodies, it means a $200 5 year old plus camera will look virtually the same as the $2000 GH6. That would be a hard pass for me.

                                Dynamic range is of course a challenge for any MFT sensor, and I suspect it's one area where MFT will simply never compete with full frame. That said, I'd say the DR on the GH5 is worse than the EM1 MII/III, or at the very least the Oly does better job making the DR seem more pleasing (again, using straight out of camera profiles). Neither has great DR or low light performance. If the GH6 uses the rumored 42 megapixel sensor, it's very hard to believe that either DR or low light performance would be noticeably better then the GH5. Could even be worse.

                                One thing that the Oly indisputably does better is with 8 bit video: shooting the sky or some other larger area in 8-bit on the GH5 invites a flurry of ugly blocking/banding. The 8-bit only Oly exhibits none of those banding issues in similar situations. Of course you can shoot 10 bit with the GH5... in fact, you pretty much have to if you're outdoors on a sunny day. Which is fine if you have a blazing computer, or have time. If you're doing quick turn around stuff, like youtube vlogs, the GH5 is lacking in this regard. The GH6 would have to make some fairly big improvements in this area to help attract more casual shooters.

                                And of course, the biggest issue of all, bad auto-focus. This is perhaps the most perplexing of all the issues, the single biggest issue keeping Panasonic in 6th place. Sony & Olympus have amazing AF while Canon & Fuji's can be hit or miss... but still light years ahead of Panasonic. That none of Panny's cameras have reliable AF is a millstone around their necks that will grow steadily heavier with each passing day.

                                One of the best things about the GH5 is it's ability to go anywhere to shoot anything. Yet b/c the AF is unusable, it eliminates a huge number of potential applications, thus severely limiting the appeal of the camera. From gimbals, to inexperienced shooters, to sports/events, good AF - like good IBIS - is a feature that once used is never forgotten. Younger shooters in particular are likely to simply pass on any camera w/o good AF. Simply put, no reliable AF equals no serious interest from many potential buyers.

                                But hey, if Panasonic can sort out it's AF and color science, heck yeah I'd consider buying one. Panasonic has the best menus, are the least glitchy, & have the most features - but there are some serious issues that simply must be addressed if the GH6 is going to be a worthy successor in 2021.

                                Note that for me at least, 8K, 12 bit, and other flashier technical specs mean nothing if the more basic stuff is not seriously upgrayyedd.

                                Lastly, Olympus may be down, but they appear to not be out. Their EM series of cameras have been still-oriented up to now, yet still somehow make a prettier video then the GH5. If Olympus actually survives and deliver on their promise to concentrate on making better video SLRs, the GH6 may be in big trouble. Olympus has no higher end video segment to protect, and can concentrate solely on MFT....

                                Neither is true for Panasonic.
                                John Vincent
                                Evil Genius Entertainment.com

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X