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  • Bassman2003
    replied
    I thought you would enjoy the final verdict. After almost 20 years in business, I want to buy equipment less and less. It will be healthy to learn a new system.

    Leave a comment:


  • NorBro
    replied
    I am a proud camera father...it's a day I thought I'd never see...

    Bassman2003 bought a new camera after 17 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bassman2003
    replied
    Full disclosure (for Norbro) - I ordered an A7IV and an A7sIII and will put my GH5 & Canon gear up for sale. It has been a long wait but this was the way forward for me. I like the Panasonic functionality but they just let things go too long. I also do not have confidence the AF system will be a complete change/upgrade. I wanted a full stills/video hybrid setup without video compromises. It was between the Canon R5/R6 and the Sonys. It was close but in the end, I did not want to grit my teeth over small HDMIs, overheating and 30 min. time limits. Too bad Canon as you lost all of my body and lens purchases over your restrictions. Was it really worth it to artificially limit the cameras?

    It is sad that the Panasonic cameras where not in the mix. Why? It seems to me that the S line could vanish at any time. I am not a huge user of auto focus but on gimbals and some stills work require it. Stubborn or not allowed to succeed is what comes to mind. But either way, nothing I want to invest in. The S5 was a ray of hope but giving it a lame viewfinder and small HDMI just took Panasonic out of the mix. Nothing kills a camera purchase than a feature that is out of date before you even take delivery.

    In the end, after watching too many YouTube videos, all of these cameras look more alike than different these days. That allowed me to go to the Sony system as I have never liked the look of their lower end cameras in the past. 10bit 4:2:2 and we are off to races. I am tired of cameras and camera makers to be honest. All of the thorns and finely diced features spread across the marketplace is exhausting. Pick one and go make the best of it.

    Yes, this thread is tired and frankly so am I. For those who do purchase a GH6 (if it arrives) I am sure it will be a great tool. Best of luck!

    Leave a comment:


  • stoneinapond
    replied
    Originally posted by NorBro View Post
    There's about a 50/50 chance they let a few more months go by and eventually cancel it.


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  • NorBro
    replied
    There's about a 50/50 chance they let a few more months go by and eventually cancel it.

    Even if they said they wouldn't.

    Because people change their minds or lie.

    Just speculation and it's not something I want to see, but there's truly a good chance if you (anyone) forget about cameras for a second and think business and money.

    Leave a comment:


  • stoneinapond
    replied
    Thread seems lonely. Yes, still interested but could be tempted away by an S5 mkII if it had a first rate EVF. But since neither is real at the moment, I'll have to continue waiting patiently. Although that is wearing thin with each passing day.

    Leave a comment:


  • DLD
    replied
    In a free/freer market, there'd be product made for the niche users, albeit with a higher markup than for the "typical" applications. The photo-video market, on the other hand, is rigidly controlled by the Japanese cartel, with the top brands wrestling with each other behind the scenes to claim the most lucrative portions. In this case, timing was crucial. MFT cameras seem to have missed several opportunities for a new cycle and now have to defer to the newest full frame models.

    PS. Technically speaking, a full frame camera can also offer an MFT or near MFT crop too but that would near destroy the stand-alone MFT market. And so they only offer an APS-C crop. The rest is out of their hands. If the end users move away from a particular format, then it's very unlikely that further research and development will be directed toward it. And it will wither on the vine. Like the cassette players, CRT TV's and VCR's.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ron Evans
    replied
    Thinking people would buy a full frame at the same price is like wondering why someone would buy a Harley Davidson motorcycle when they could get a car for the same price. I for one do not want a full frame. Don't want to have to deal with the shallow depth of field and like the smaller lenses which I already own. I would like to use the lenses I have or if I have to change it would be for specific reasons . If I do change Blackmagic cameras are a better fit for what I want. A BM MFT 6K Pro would be great or better with an S35 8K Pro which would of course mean S35 lens to buy as well. IBIS and continuous autofocus are not even on my list of features. So not everyone has the same needs. For me upgrade features are 6 or 8K ( so that I can crop in closer than with UHD now) , long continuous power, RAW recording with secondary backup, good exposure setting ( scopes, peaking, punch in for focus etc). Panasonic needs external record ( I already have 2 Ninja V's ) BM have most of the features but for me would need an upgrade to the HDMI output to UHD ( which the newer Studio Cameras have so I think the updated Pocket range will get this as well to meet application of the latest ATEM's to UHD) I will look at the GH6 to see if the features fit for my needs. I expect it to have USB C PD power like the GH5M2, internal and external recording, RAW recording over HDMI for ProRes RAW and BRAW ( why would it be different to the GH5S ) though I expect no internal recording when recording RAW, IBIS like the GH5M2, autofocus improvements. I will also wait to see the next range from BM since I would like to record 6 or 8K RAW plus a normal backup of UHD60P. That is the feature I am really looking for. I expect BM to be the first to offer this since at UHD the Studio Cameras already do this.

    Leave a comment:


  • DLD
    replied
    Originally posted by Ron Evans View Post
    The GH6 has a new sensor that can shoot 5.7K 60P then I wonder who else may use this sensor for a camera...
    Chances are the other participant going to be Olympus/OMD Digital, as has been the case in the last decade. However, OMD should want a higher pixel count than 20 MPX because it is a photo first/video second camera manufacturer, whereas Panasonic is video first/photo second. The problem from OMD's perspective is that Sony - their contractual sensor manufacturer - already has a 24 MPX APS-C model selling for $700 and charging more for a lower rez/smaller sensor camera is not going to be a viable commercial option. This means Sony has to make one sensor that will satisfy both the OMD stills shooters and the Panasonic video shooters at once. A solid option wold be via a Quad Bayer sensor, in the 12/48 to 16/64 range

    Or, Sony can make something similar to A7IV as an MFT with a 33 MPX sensor and an oversampled 7K-into-4K. In which case, most people would still buy A7IV. And so the MFT alliance would have to make a jump into the 40's, which would suit OMD just fine but would force Panasonic to deliver a Canon R5 type oversampled 8K-into-4K in-camera recording. And that would require a lot of number crunching with the potential overheating complications. But, at least, it is something they'd be able to charge $2,500 for.

    Sony did announce a 47 MPX sensor two years ago (IMX492LQJ) with the 45.1 stills capability and 8K at 30p but it was only 10-bit and didn't make it into any cameras. Quite likely, Panasonic preferred to launch its full frame line and avoid competing with itself. It would be put in an uncomfortable situation if GH-6 had superior specs to S1, to say the least.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ron Evans
    replied
    The GH6 has a new sensor that can shoot 5.7K 60P then I wonder who else may use this sensor for a camera. The BM Pocket 4K and Studio camera sensor is so close (is it the same ) to the GH5S sensor I just wonder if BM would make a MFT 6K Pro version. To me that would be more attractive than the GH6.

    Leave a comment:


  • DLD
    replied
    Originally posted by hojomo View Post
    Panasonic just needs functional AF for video & after the GH6 release get an 8K L mount cinema camera out. They can still do fine as a niche player. They will sell a couple thousand GH6s at $2500.
    That's the problem with Panasonic - do they bring out 8K in MFT or their full frame L-mount cameras? And, if they don't do 8K in GH-6 - which they said they wouldn't - then $2,500 is not a good value for that camera. And so they're stuck.

    Originally posted by hojomo View Post
    I'm really interested to find out if Sony is making Nikon's Z9 sensor or not. There is rumors that Tower Jazz is producing them and there are public announcements of a renewed relationship with Nikon from February this year (Nikon has used them & Aptina to produce Nikon-designed sensors in the past). It mentions Nikon supplying equipment to Tower Jazz.
    It's a Sony sensor. Tower Jazz was making some smartphone sensors for Panasonic, although Panasonic does make some of their own sensors, including the first organic global shutter 8K that has been demoed again recently. But it's S35 upscale/high end video model. Whether it'll ever make it into the consumer/prosumer market is unknown. Or whether it makes it anywhere at all.

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  • hojomo
    replied
    Originally posted by Bassman2003 View Post
    The combo of an A7IV + A7sIII or one of the cine models is a complete full small company stills and video coverage tool set without any compromise.
    Correct, along with the broadest choice in 3rd party & native lenses. You basically also have this with Canon, at a higher price point - minus a decent amount of the 3rd part lens options. There will be a lot more 3rd party RF lenses coming in the next couple of years though


    Originally posted by Peter C. View Post
    I think our opinions of out comes are exaggerated for and against cameras based on our specific needs. Each person has to do what's best for them but I know how you feel when you invest in a system and the competition innovates while your system stagnates or doesn't add the features you desire.

    Factually the market place is declining for Panasonic and the GH line. Despite that Panasonic is continuing to produce the GH and some people will stay with that system because either their budget, lens investment or their needs are still fulfilled with it.

    I was watching a video where they were speculating that Panasonic is going to price the GH6 at $2,5 same as Sony A74 which would be funny. I don't think it will sell at that price. I think it's more likely will be $2k. The only selling point for the GH6 could be price for the camera and lenses. Although Black Magic is less expensive so it's their niche is getting increasingly small.
    Panasonic just needs functional AF for video & after the GH6 release get an 8K L mount cinema camera out. They can still do fine as a niche player. They will sell a couple thousand GH6s at $2500.

    I'm really interested to find out if Sony is making Nikon's Z9 sensor or not. There is rumors that Tower Jazz is producing them and there are public announcements of a renewed relationship with Nikon from February this year (Nikon has used them & Aptina to produce Nikon-designed sensors in the past). It mentions Nikon supplying equipment to Tower Jazz.

    I kind of wonder if with Nikon losing out on making machines for the CPU fab business; if they have been able to repurpose that technology to help them get a viable non-sony partner to make camera sensors in the kind of volumes they'd need for their best selling bodies. Pure speculation of course.

    Canon, the only viable competitor to Sony, maintains it's own ability to put the sensors it wants in their cameras for a reason. Nikon & Panasonic probably can't even be niche players without that independence. Sony has slowly unfurled it's strategy to take over the whole industry and it's working pretty well
    Last edited by hojomo; 11-14-2021, 12:11 PM.

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  • stoneinapond
    replied
    Originally posted by Bassman2003 View Post

    So sad to move on but its the end of the GH line for me...
    if that's what you want and need right now, just do it. The rest of us who are still interested have to wait a while longer to make those decisions.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peter C.
    replied
    Originally posted by Bassman2003 View Post
    After watching some prepared A7IV work on YouTube, I can honestly say that I am not interested in the GH6 anymore. Panasonic waited too long and as I expected, Sony came in and blew the doors open at the $2,500 price point. The GH6 will never be seen as an equal for photography compared to the A7IV, so right there the GH6 is already behind. Now that the video specs are above acceptable levels for codecs, AF and features, I just do not see the GH6 as being a great path anymore. The combo of an A7IV + A7sIII or one of the cine models is a complete full small company stills and video coverage tool set without any compromise. Yes, this exists in Canon and Panny but there are compromises in the line (for me) imho with these sized cameras. The main thing stopping me from buying Sony in the past was their color. I believe the round of cameras starting with the A7sIII turned a corner for them and I think they are 'close enough' that one can dial in the look they want. Mainly the skin tones are more pleasing now and the tints have diminished to be easily removed. Basically, the footage I see from a variety of sources does scream SONY! when I see it. It just looks nice, which is what is desired imho.

    So sad to move on but its the end of the GH line for me...
    I think our opinions of out comes are exaggerated for and against cameras based on our specific needs. Each person has to do what's best for them but I know how you feel when you invest in a system and the competition innovates while your system stagnates or doesn't add the features you desire.

    Factually the market place is declining for Panasonic and the GH line. Despite that Panasonic is continuing to produce the GH and some people will stay with that system because either their budget, lens investment or their needs are still fulfilled with it.

    I was watching a video where they were speculating that Panasonic is going to price the GH6 at $2,5 same as Sony A74 which would be funny. I don't think it will sell at that price. I think it's more likely will be $2k. The only selling point for the GH6 could be price for the camera and lenses. Although Black Magic is less expensive so it's their niche is getting increasingly small.
    Last edited by Peter C.; 11-14-2021, 09:09 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bassman2003
    replied
    After watching some prepared A7IV work on YouTube, I can honestly say that I am not interested in the GH6 anymore. Panasonic waited too long and as I expected, Sony came in and blew the doors open at the $2,500 price point. The GH6 will never be seen as an equal for photography compared to the A7IV, so right there the GH6 is already behind. Now that the video specs are above acceptable levels for codecs, AF and features, I just do not see the GH6 as being a great path anymore. The combo of an A7IV + A7sIII or one of the cine models is a complete full small company stills and video coverage tool set without any compromise. Yes, this exists in Canon and Panny but there are compromises in the line (for me) imho with these sized cameras. The main thing stopping me from buying Sony in the past was their color. I believe the round of cameras starting with the A7sIII turned a corner for them and I think they are 'close enough' that one can dial in the look they want. Mainly the skin tones are more pleasing now and the tints have diminished to be easily removed. Basically, the footage I see from a variety of sources does scream SONY! when I see it. It just looks nice, which is what is desired imho.

    So sad to move on but its the end of the GH line for me...

    Leave a comment:

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