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    #16
    If you need a B/C cam for the gimbal or tripod it's probably a big catch. It can stay on the gimbal/tripod and save you a lot of time.

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      #17
      Originally posted by NorBro View Post
      I don't remember the R5 forcing you to use its IBIS if you had the lens' IS on. You could use the lens stabilization or just the IBIS or both for optimal performance (if the lens IS communicated with the body).

      There was a FW update that worked on the wobbliness/warpiness for I think one or two of the wider Canon lenses, but for the most part the IBIS is more than usable (but just not as good as other companies.]
      The problem with Canon is you can't turn IBIS off and just use the lens IS. The IBIS does cause wobbles on the wider lenses you can still see it on a 24mm.

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        #18
        I bookmarked the thread and I'll have to check this out again the next chance I get.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Peter C. View Post
          So are you going to buy the R8?

          I'm frankly getting fatigued by all the variations they keep putting out and keeping track of the feature matrix. Model 1 has a, c, w, g, and limited r when filming in w, Model 2 has a, but no c, g and x, etc

          In the last few years they have released R, R3, R5, R5c, R6m2, R6, R7, R8, R10... That's just Canon
          I don't think it's hard at all to know the difference between each model. How many different models does Sony have? Between their FF and APSC line? A lot and their names are just as obscure.

          People complain when there is just one camera option and now apparently complain when there are multiple options. The easy thing about Canon is generally the smaller the number of the model the higher end the camera is. R5 is higher end than the R6 and the R3 is higher than the R5. At least there is some logical order to the names vs Sony. The R5c is a cinema version of the R5 hence the very easy "c" added to the name. R6 mk2 is the second version of the R6 which replaces it. Much like the Sony A7S having three versions. Just forget about the R. I'm surprised they have not phased it out yet but it is popular with photographers for the 32MP FF sensor who have little to no interest in video.

          I'm not sure what you are finding difficult to keep track of. Canon isn't really removing or adding features randomly here. They are being pretty consistent these days which is shocking. The R8 for example has almost every video feature of the R6 mk2 minus IBIS and external raw.

          I'm not sure if I'm getting a R8 or not. I really want to upgrade from my R6 to the R6 mk2. If I already had a R6 mk2 and needed a second camera I would totally consider the R8. I don't see the R8 for me personally as my only or main camera. I see it as a great backup camera. I know someday the 30 minute record limit and over heating on the R6 are going to byte me in the butt. I can get around that with my Ninja V but it's also nice to just not have to worry about it. I personally really need to upgrade my R6 first. Then if I sell the R6 I could get the R8 to have two perfectly matched cameras.

          At one point I was even considering the R10 as a backup camera. Only $1,000 and it also gave me the APSC extra reach option. Also has no IBIS but a second camera for me would be locked down on a tripod or someone else could use it on my gimbal. For $500 more now I can get clog3, exact same image quality as the R6 mk2, 4k 60 with no crop, and pretty much every video feature I use in camera. Thats a lot extra over the R10 and the only thing I lose is that extra APSC reach.

          But then the R6 mk2 camera out and I now would rather upgrade my R6 to solve many of its faults and then have the R6 as my backup or later on replace it with a R10 or R8. Likely now the R8.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by morgan_moore View Post
            there seem to be two schools.

            1) it is cheap so it must be bad (for amateurs/beginners/poor people)

            2) it is new so while cheap it mght be better due to tech advances of spec/cost

            Personally I think image/focus speed it is certainly good or better, but a clashing mic and missing DOF button, small evf, make it wrong for me.. (or not?) .. it is just too shrunk to fit everything (that i need/want) in.
            Why would you even think of considering a R8? If the R6 and R5 already don't do some of the things you need why would a budget R8 suddenly change that? Any of us would know in five seconds this is not the camera for you.

            If you want the R6 mk2 but want to spend less for the same quality with a few compromises then the R8 would be a great option. If that extra $1,000 is not a big deal for you then 100% you should get the R6 mk2 instead.

            The R8 sacrificed what it could to bring the cost down to $1,500 without losing the heart and soul of what makes the R6 mk2 really good for photos and video. Yes it will not serve everyone equally but that is not the point of the R8. The point was provide as much as possible with sacrifices that will not impact every user.

            Some would argue the EVF and LCD size/resolution don't matter a ton. All DSLR type camera EVFs and LCD screens are seriously limited for professional work. They are all typically no better than a 720p display and way too small to judge focus. An extra inch and 100 more pixels of vertical resolution are not going to suddenly change that. Yes it's nice getting bigger and more to make those screens suck a little less but I wouldn't exactly call them a huge deal breaker. They all suck. Even 5" is a bit small for 4k. At the end of the day thanks to the great DPAF most users will use the LCD for framing, composition, exposure and making sure the color isn't completely off. Both the R8 and R6 mk2 screens are perfectly fine for that.

            You are the first person I have ever heard mention a DOF button. I didn't even know what the heck you were talking about. I still don't 100% grasp its beneficial use case but if you find value in such a feature then you need to get the R6 mk2 instead.

            It is unfortunate if the mic port does block the LCD rotating. Again thats likely a very small price to pay for many shooters. As a B cam it may never plug a mic into that port. I always use a loupe on my R6 LCD so it's never swinging out anyway. Again clearly the R6 mk2 is a better option for you if you don't want those compromises. I'm still not sure why you would even consider a R8 unless you really care about saving $1,000.

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              #21
              Im on my phone so cant do a big comment

              the dof button is a tradition from film cams.

              but i dont use it for that - i assign evf or flippy screen switch here

              To me this is huge as the camera choosing which screen to illuminate “randomly” is something making me desire death of camera designer

              —-
              as for “if r5 isn't good enough then clearly this wont be”

              i take it the other way

              give canon $1000 or $6000 and you don't get a big hdmi or sdi

              so ill give em $1000 and spend the rest on beer
              http://www.sammorganmoore.com View my feature Film

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                #22
                When all AI cameras start detecting retina and an eyeball and THEN make the change to the EVF then that function/concept above will perform more accurately. Right now it's a little "random" even with sensitivity settings (although those help and don't make it jump to the EVF so quickly if even a fly flies by).

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Thomas Smet View Post

                  Why would you even think of considering a R8? If the R6 and R5 already don't do some of the things you need why would a budget R8 suddenly change that? Any of us would know in five seconds this is not the camera for you.

                  If you want the R6 mk2 but want to spend less for the same quality with a few compromises then the R8 would be a great option. If that extra $1,000 is not a big deal for you then 100% you should get the R6 mk2 instead.

                  The R8 sacrificed what it could to bring the cost down to $1,500 without losing the heart and soul of what makes the R6 mk2 really good for photos and video. Yes it will not serve everyone equally but that is not the point of the R8. The point was provide as much as possible with sacrifices that will not impact every user.

                  Some would argue the EVF and LCD size/resolution don't matter a ton. All DSLR type camera EVFs and LCD screens are seriously limited for professional work. They are all typically no better than a 720p display and way too small to judge focus. An extra inch and 100 more pixels of vertical resolution are not going to suddenly change that. Yes it's nice getting bigger and more to make those screens suck a little less but I wouldn't exactly call them a huge deal breaker. They all suck. Even 5" is a bit small for 4k. At the end of the day thanks to the great DPAF most users will use the LCD for framing, composition, exposure and making sure the color isn't completely off. Both the R8 and R6 mk2 screens are perfectly fine for that.

                  You are the first person I have ever heard mention a DOF button. I didn't even know what the heck you were talking about. I still don't 100% grasp its beneficial use case but if you find value in such a feature then you need to get the R6 mk2 instead.

                  It is unfortunate if the mic port does block the LCD rotating. Again thats likely a very small price to pay for many shooters. As a B cam it may never plug a mic into that port. I always use a loupe on my R6 LCD so it's never swinging out anyway. Again clearly the R6 mk2 is a better option for you if you don't want those compromises. I'm still not sure why you would even consider a R8 unless you really care about saving $1,000.
                  warrior back at keyboard!

                  Why would you even think of considering a R8? If the R6 and R5 already don't do some of the things you need why would a budget R8 suddenly change that?

                  1000 or $5000 you dont get nd xlr or sdi or large well placed hdmi. so Id prefer to spend $1000 than $5000

                  (I have a c200 FS7 and access to rental shops for this stuff)

                  Ive clearly got in my head what a mirrorless will do in a professional suite of camera ownership..
                  -make a small package for journalism
                  -run 'naked' on a hard mount.. car hood, food overhead, whatever
                  -fail to give an image to a director
                  "You can have the fs7 overhead, but it will be my combostands and scaff tubes.. and take 20 mins - you get a picture.. or in 5 mins we can put this dslr overhead for you"

                  Some would argue the EVF and LCD size/resolution don't matter a ton.

                  Without a physical test I dont know.. it would be great if a poster siad 'i have one of these little cameras.. it is fine ..or it is meh'

                  Thats why I come to a forum

                  My experience is that the EX1 was trash in the evf hole while the c200 and r6 and nikkor z6 are 'fine'

                  Of course focus af or manual confirm are a huge help - im aware of that and highly rate the canon 'green box' when in manual focus


                  It is unfortunate if the mic port does block the LCD rotating.

                  In the journalism role i think this is VERY BAD if true enough to choose a different cam (or seek a workaround)

                  It would be good to hear from experienced forum members




                  http://www.sammorganmoore.com View my feature Film

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by NorBro View Post
                    When all AI cameras start detecting retina and an eyeball and THEN make the change to the EVF then that function/concept above will perform more accurately. Right now it's a little "random" even with sensitivity settings (although those help and don't make it jump to the EVF so quickly if even a fly flies by).
                    Im interested in cameras you can buy today.

                    You are aware of the screens jumping around (gh4, z6, canon mirrorless) ??

                    Do any posters have a better solution that adding manual evf selection onto the 'dof' button

                    How do others handle it??? Can I enjoy a camera with a dodgy evf and no dof button?
                    http://www.sammorganmoore.com View my feature Film

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by morgan_moore View Post

                      Im interested in cameras you can buy today.

                      You are aware of the screens jumping around (gh4, z6, canon mirrorless) ??

                      Do any posters have a better solution that adding manual evf selection onto the 'dof' button

                      How do others handle it??? Can I enjoy a camera with a dodgy evf and no dof button?
                      Yeah, everyone's aware and uses any custom button to switch back and forth between them, or turns the auto off and leaves it on the LCD-only because many people don't use an EVF for every shoot, especially indoors. So then jumping is nonexistent.

                      With that said, I think any button by the lens or in a hidden-like location is a good button to assign that to because it's out of the way.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        a funny thought from my stills past..

                        I used have a nikon f4 add 20 nikkors and also a contax t2

                        the thing about the tiny camera is that it used exactly the same 'sensor' as the bigger camera kit

                        to some extent this might be why I feel small cheap cameras can be great.

                        short of some elements.. but great

                        and when one had 4k 10bit in small and large cameras they are maybe comparable and only size buttons frame rate will differenciate them. the user experience


                        ok so the contax wasnt that cheap but the olympus trip was!

                        S
                        http://www.sammorganmoore.com View my feature Film

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by morgan_moore View Post

                          warrior back at keyboard!

                          Why would you even think of considering a R8? If the R6 and R5 already don't do some of the things you need why would a budget R8 suddenly change that?

                          1000 or $5000 you dont get nd xlr or sdi or large well placed hdmi. so Id prefer to spend $1000 than $5000

                          (I have a c200 FS7 and access to rental shops for this stuff)

                          Ive clearly got in my head what a mirrorless will do in a professional suite of camera ownership..
                          -make a small package for journalism
                          -run 'naked' on a hard mount.. car hood, food overhead, whatever
                          -fail to give an image to a director
                          "You can have the fs7 overhead, but it will be my combostands and scaff tubes.. and take 20 mins - you get a picture.. or in 5 mins we can put this dslr overhead for you"

                          Some would argue the EVF and LCD size/resolution don't matter a ton.

                          Without a physical test I dont know.. it would be great if a poster siad 'i have one of these little cameras.. it is fine ..or it is meh'

                          Thats why I come to a forum

                          My experience is that the EX1 was trash in the evf hole while the c200 and r6 and nikkor z6 are 'fine'

                          Of course focus af or manual confirm are a huge help - im aware of that and highly rate the canon 'green box' when in manual focus


                          It is unfortunate if the mic port does block the LCD rotating.

                          In the journalism role i think this is VERY BAD if true enough to choose a different cam (or seek a workaround)

                          It would be good to hear from experienced forum members



                          The LCD is actually the same size and resolution between the R6 and R8. It's only the EVF thats smaller/lower resolution on the R8. Do you use the EVF a lot? We also have to be careful with EVF specs. They are listed in dots with 3 dots per pixel where one is each R, G or B. Then it's a total like MP. In the end we are talking a OLED EVF with a 1280x960 vs 1024x768. Yes it's better but I wouldn't exactly call that dramatically different. both are far from great resolutions. I consider the R6 EVF also pretty low resolution but it's fine for what it is. A way to see to frame a shot and judge color/exposure.

                          We also get to a point where throwing more pixels at a EVF may not help as much. We can only see fine detail up to a certain point and have to start moving to larger displays to see more pixels and judge finer details.

                          The R8 clearly does not have as good of a EVF but I'm seriously wondering if that matters a ton in real world usage. I once had a Canon M6 Mk2 that had no EVF at all. I slapped a loupe on the LCD on the back and essentially used it as a 3" EVF.

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                            #28
                            I take the excistence of an evf as a major jump. A very serious thing to turn the camera into a tool.

                            Like a stills camera (dlsr) one brings the camera to the eye and then the CofM moves back towards the body and the face becomes a point of contact. Stable, tight and sunlight excluded.

                            This is a huge upgrade vs the 5d with a zfinder - which did exclude the sunlight but didnt bring the mass back.

                            External monitors are a world of hell with thier floppy leads seperate power, wobbly hdmi, tilted horizons and fake noga arms.

                            So basically in the sun I will be using an evf all the time

                            Id use the flippy screen for gutcam or floor level shots or as per my recent work with the camera on mini sticks on the chefs table.

                            The usable evfs Ive experienced (canon r6 nikon z6) are completely another generation in the right direction compared to a glass mirror DSLR - which are useless for filming.

                            The gh4 was a bit pissant, the ex1 insulting.

                            So yes a good evf is central.

                            Does the cut in resolution matter.. that is something for me to mull and test in a store or show - no one mentions any physical feel on Youpube- because mainly they are not operators.. most likely that resolution does matter?






                            http://www.sammorganmoore.com View my feature Film

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                              #29
                              My feeling (for the next 15mins).. considering im on a tight budget and own a fully paid for r6 is

                              spend any money on the 24-105/4 rf lens - i think it is a keeper with three rings and 2 switches

                              It works on the r6 and will be good on my future c500mk3 (!)

                              -learn the r6 better..
                              -use crop mode where there is action to reduce rolling sh-itter
                              -learn to engage crop mode fast
                              -learn to look at the screen to understand which mode im in (reducing the need for a vid/phot switch)


                              As it happens I assign the control ring to focus type which is reduced to..
                              -face focus
                              -focus on the square
                              I use the SET button to 'pause' the AF good for lock offs or recomposed lockoffs

                              in terms of ND I usuealy use nothing or chuck on a 3 outside in the UK. portugal id go for 6.





                              http://www.sammorganmoore.com View my feature Film

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