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Kimmy - 1DX mark II 4K video

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    Based on my experience with the 1DC and Canon Service, I can tell you that the 1DC was pretty much DOA as far as Canon Corporate was concerned. It's sales were very poor. The market for a $12,000 DSLR was miniscule and probably less than the development costs for software like C-Log. Rather than try to increase sales by expanding the firmware or adding options, Canon abandoned the camera. Canon now appears to be focusing on photography and videography as two completely separate divisions. Outside of DPAF, Canon's video tech on it's DSLR's hasn't improved since the 1DC. The XC-10 appears to have been a stab at the hybrid market, but it has also been pretty much DOA (even though I'm thinking of picking one up). Now, why Canon would release a 1DC II that would be at least twice as much as any comparable video focused hybrid just doesn't make sense to me from a marketing and sales perspective.

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      Originally posted by cpreston View Post
      Canon now appears to be focusing on photography and videography as two completely separate divisions...
      They stated that thy would even target narrower groups within the DSLR markets. It basically meant one camera for portraits/landscape (5Ds/r); one camera for the hybrid shooters (5D MKIV); one camera for the nostalgia lovers (5D MKIII).

      Seriously, the camera everyone is musing about is C100 MKIII/C200 - 4K pro style video camera for around $8,000. And it'll be here. Some day.

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        A C100 III/C200 would seem to fill a hole in Canon's Cinema EOS lineup as I've speculated as well. The problem is that the C300 II is $16K and they can't undercut that camera by any significant amount with another 4K Super 35mm camera with internal 10-bit intraframe recording (RAW is output only). So, if they do release such a camera for $8,000, we are talking about a C100 III with a very weak codec shooting 8-bit 4K Long GOP (i.e., a Sony FS5 equivalent minus the RAW output option). Canon will simply never offer FS7-like features for the same price. The C300 II is already their FS7 equivalent for double the price!

        There is also the matter of the C500, which is currently discounted at $10K and that is in urgent need of a newer model with internal 4K RAW. A new C500 at around $25K-$30K would seem to be the next camera that Canon is going to release in the Cinema EOS line. Now, given the discounted status of both the C500 and 1DC, Canon may be signaling its intentions in terms of which Cinema EOS cameras are up next for a renewal.
        Last edited by Kinok; 05-05-2016, 01:51 PM.

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          My guess, for what it's worth, is that the next camera cinema camera announced will be the C500II with 4K internal recording on an 8K sensor and 8K RAW. Canon may also introduce a C200 or 100III meant to compete with the FS5/FS7 with 4K internal at low bit rates as Kinok imagines. The C300II is not a direct competitor to the FS7 since it has timecode, genlock, and RAW output already built in. The FS7 requires an attachment which helps to mitigate the price difference. The Canon cameras still fetch a premium compared to Sony, though.

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            They can do C100III/C200 with the same 205/305 Mbps recording bit rate that XC10 has. If they offer it for $5,000, they can make it 8-bit. For $7,500, it better be 10-bit. The same specs as FS-7, basically, and, basically, the same price.

            But they won't do it due to ... let's call it "corporate strategy". Of both companies.

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              Second ISO test I've seen from the 1DX Mark II...and again I think it's pretty darn clean (the high ones that appear usable).

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcu1Jx3NL7E

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                Originally posted by NorBro View Post
                Second ISO test I've seen from the 1DX Mark II...and again I think it's pretty darn clean (the high ones that appear usable).

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcu1Jx3NL7E
                I saw this a few days ago. It looks very clean to 1600 and usable to 6400. I don't think there is any doubt about the noise performance. With such large photosites, it will be better than almost any video camera you can imagine for signal-to-noise performance.

                What I'm looking for here are favored ISOs like the 5D Mark II. When it goes from 400 to 800, for example, it actually gets darker! Is it applying negative gain? Next, from 800 to 1600, there is hardly any change. Between 1600 and 3200, it finally goes brighter again. From 3200 to 6400 it gets brighter again, but at 12800, it loses saturation and goes darker. 16000 looks brighter, but I pretty much stopped looking for the favored ISOs at this point as there is just too much noise.

                Here is another ISO test from the same channel (go to 1:00 for the red Subaru ISO test):



                Again, right off the bat from 100 to 200, the image gets darker! But, this time, from 400 to 800 gets brighter and 800 to 1600 gets darker. What is going on here? It's a very bizarre performance that contradicts the other test. Did s/he forget to take it off auto gain or something? It's impossible to know what his or her settings were.

                Also, recall how the ISO test at the beach had none of these issues:

                Last edited by Kinok; 05-05-2016, 05:00 PM.

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                  The operator is probably adjusting the aperture or shutter during takes, if there are any between the ISO changes. At :45 there is definitely a cut.

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                    Originally posted by Kinok View Post
                    What is going on here? It's a very bizarre performance that contradicts the other test. Did s/he forget to take it off auto gain or something?
                    The two videos are doing two completely different things.

                    In the top one they are keeping the Exposure Value constant (by adjusting shutter and aperture and/or filters). This is so that you can judge noise characteristics relative to a constant brightness level. The problem here is that they are shooting outdoors and light levels will change constantly.

                    The second video is shooting in a dark setting and they simply increase the ISO and let the image get progressively brighter.

                    The second video on the beach will probably be the better indication of ISO performance. In bright scenes, you can often shoot at high ISO without major problems since much of the image data sits so high above the noise floor.
                    @andreemarkefors

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                      Originally posted by AndreeOnline View Post
                      The two videos are doing two completely different things.

                      In the top one they are keeping the Exposure Value constant (by adjusting shutter and aperture and/or filters). This is so that you can judge noise characteristics relative to a constant brightness level. The problem here is that they are shooting outdoors and light levels will change constantly.

                      The second video is shooting in a dark setting and they simply increase the ISO and let the image get progressively brighter.

                      The second video on the beach will probably be the better indication of ISO performance. In bright scenes, you can often shoot at high ISO without major problems since much of the image data sits so high above the noise floor.
                      I think you are correct. It simply would have been better if the person who posted the video explained the settings and parameters of the tests. The beach scene is truly remarkable though for the ISO levels that are reached. It also shows a very linear ISO performance.

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                        Here is some very impressive 100fps from the 1DX II shot by someone who already owns and operates the 1DC. The footage here is also showing better DR and roll-off, and more 1DC-like or "creamy" qualities:



                        Finally, it appears that in the right hands the 1DX II could match the 1DC!
                        Last edited by Kinok; 05-06-2016, 08:12 AM.

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                          I think the quality is just okay. Any 100/120fps from the Sonys looks much better IMO.

                          The focus pulls are nice.

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                            At least on my monitor, that 100fps video looks far better than I expected. For some reason, it actually looks sharper than what I expect from Canon's FullHD. Maybe it is just the use of sharpening, as I was seeing some moire, but I could even see the fibers on the jackets and I would never be able to see that on the 60p on the 1DC. Canon appears to have upped their game on the 1DX II. It looks like it could cut with the cinema cameras.

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                              The Cruising Havana footage was recently re-uploaded on Vimeo. I'm not sure if they added anything (I don't seem to remember the dawn/dusk and night shots in the previous version), but this version looks even more impressive to me.



                              There is also a new field review from one of the filmmakers, Richard Patterson, who makes a very bold claim:

                              The 4k image is very crisp, has a smooth roll-off in the highlights and handles shadows well using the settings. I actually prefer the images a bit to those from my Sony FS7 at 4K in natural light. The 1D X Mark II definitely interprets and captures red hues better than my Sony FS7. In addition, the overall color interpretation seems less heavy-handed and feels more authentic with the Canon.
                              http://nofilmschool.com/2016/05/fiel...s-1d-x-mark-ii
                              Last edited by Kinok; 05-06-2016, 01:13 PM.

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                                Here is another impressive video that just posted. Noise performance and color are once again outstanding, as is the camera's resolving power at 4K. It's hard to believe this comes from an 8 Bit camera that you can carry in a relatively small camera bag. As with the magical 1DC, the 4:2:2 subsampling and the MJPEG make all the difference in retaining its filmic qualities. I think I may need one of these cameras. It's like a 1DC for half the original price.

                                Last edited by Kinok; 05-06-2016, 04:35 PM.

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