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Kimmy - 1DX mark II 4K video

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    One of the other issues for me - which really no one else probably cares about - is the pixel-binning and/or line-skipping in 120fps in HD.

    It just sticks out like a sore thumb. Even that opening shot of the motorcycle night video.

    I know we should be lucky that Canon even gave us 4K/60P, but still.

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      If you must have great slow motion at HD resolutions in this price range, you will need to go with the Sony FS5 and an external RAW recorder (that is, when the RAW FS5 upgrade becomes available in June):

      http://www.newsshooter.com/2016/04/1...raw-recording/

      That will give you 240fps RAW HD! This option also allows for 120fps burst rate 4K RAW for up to 4 seconds using the FS5's internal buffer.

      If you want to keep it in-camera and add continuous 100fps 4K, your main options are the Raven and Scarlet-W, which are much more expensive, but which can do some impressive 4K slow motion in the right hands:





      As for me, I will be perfectly satisfied with the 4K 60fps in the 1DX II or any 1DC II that comes along next year. It's really the only one of these high-quality 4K 60fps cameras that you can mount anywhere or carry to any remote location with ease. And that's not even to mention the underwater shots using the Nauticam housing for those diving videographers!
      Last edited by Kinok; 05-04-2016, 05:00 PM.

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        My main option was the URSA and URSA Mini 4K for tons of projects. Respectively, 4K/120p and 4K/60p in ProRes 422HQ, or up to 150fps and 120fps in windowed mode in 444XQ in HD...all continuous. But I was looking for a smaller package with decent quality.

        Still not much footage out there for the 1DX Mark II...scanning Vimeo and YouTube everyday.

        Comment


          Originally posted by NorBro View Post
          ... Still not much footage out there for the 1DX Mark II...scanning Vimeo and YouTube everyday.
          They just began shipping (and, presumably there's a substantial waiting list).

          PS. A Canon exec said in that DPR interview that they try to time their high end pro cameras with Olympic years. Well, setting aside the fact that the Summer and the Winter Olympics have long been split into the leap and non-leap years, are there really thousands upon thousands of photographers covering an Olympic event? Some of those preliminary heats in track-and-field and swimming draw a bunch of empty seats and then, of course, the throng of photogs converges onto the top events such as the 100m dash final or the thong beach volleball (a new event introduced specifically for this Brazil Olympics) and the opening and the closing ceremonies. It looks big because every licensed shooter is there. And then they all go home to cover soccer 24/7. (except in the US)

          Comment


            Originally posted by DLD View Post
            They just began shipping (and, presumably there's a substantial waiting list).
            not really. Anyone looking for one, please PM me. I can point you to where to get one for $5800. Brand new. Premium kit (free Cfast card and reader) Canon Authorize dealer. In stock. Ready to ship out. Can't beat that.

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              Yea, I don't think the waiting list is too big...I seen a few across the country here and there in the smaller shops that I usually visit when I'm trying to buy something out of NY to save on tax.

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                I'm not sure if anyone had a chance to read Andrew Reid's damning assessment of the 1DX II vs. the 1DX and 1DC:

                http://www.eoshd.com/2016/05/canon-1...n-predecessor/

                He uses the DP Review files to demonstrate how the 1DX II is a major step back in terms of ISO and color performance.

                As Canon increased the pixel density, they reduced the pixel pitch of the photosites. Combined with changes in the image processing for RAW and JPEG, these factors have reduced the ISO and color performance in the 1DX II versus its predecessors. This much is visible in the posted examples from DP Review.

                Reid's claims certainly reinforce my own reservations on the reduction of the photosites from 6.95 to 6.6 microns. Indeed, it seems that there is a corresponding and visible loss in signal-to-noise just as science would predict.

                All the same, I don't see how the 1DX II's real-world video performance is compromised because of this. It looks like the 1DX II performs really well in low light, as far as everything we have seen. Whatever differences there are when pixel peeping in photography mode are not necessarily going to translate into differences on video performance or noise levels.
                Last edited by Kinok; 05-04-2016, 11:43 PM.

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                  I've been looking at the dpreview tests myself, and my conclusion (as in his case, only for RAW stills) is completely different: this is the Canon camera with the most DR, by a wide margin. It has about one stop less than the a7R II, about the same as the a6000, and about a stop more than the RX100 IV, which puts it a bit over 13 stops, maybe 13.2. Compare that with the 11.7 stops of the 5D3 or the 11.8 of the 1DX (yes, the RX100 IV has almost one stop more DR than the previous Canon flagship; it also shoots super nice 1080p 120fps and pretty nice 1080p 240fps; and it's incredibly tiny, you can take it with you everywhere).

                  Looking at those samples at eoshd, the difference is not that big, in any case. Use the dpreview tool to compare the 1DX II with the 6D (which according to dxomark has slightly better DR than the 1DX, and is on the dpreview tool) and at +5EV you have this:

                  dr.jpg

                  If you ask me, that's the big news here, and not the very small change in noise structure.

                  Canon now has tech for high dynamic range sensor. Next, it needs to have a gamma curve that can use that in video mode. And then, it needs to put all of that on cheapr and smaller bodies. And maybe also keep them able to record RAW video through ML.
                  Last edited by Samuel H; 05-05-2016, 12:36 AM.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Bubble View Post
                    not really. Anyone looking for one, please PM me. I can point you to where to get one for $5800. Brand new. Premium kit (free Cfast card and reader) Canon Authorize dealer. In stock. Ready to ship out. Can't beat that.
                    This is always the case. Some stores will get more pre-orders than others while their allocation from the manufacturer is limited for the various reasons. Others will go the other way - fewer pre-orders than units shipped. This usually settles down from a period of few weeks to a few months, depending on the actual production of a given model and its anticipated popularity.

                    Originally posted by NorBro View Post
                    Yea, I don't think the waiting list is too big...I seen a few across the country here and there in the smaller shops that I usually visit when I'm trying to buy something out of NY to save on tax.
                    I scanned a few CR threads and some of those complaints are aimed directly at the B&H closing for Passover ("I've never heard of that holiday!"). It seems that B&H had received the shipments from the manufacturer/distributor but was unable to process the paperwork on them. After a few days of catching up on the business days lost, the units began to go out.

                    Comment


                      I was looking at the DPReview comparisons and it was clear to me that there has been somewhat of a plateau with regards to noise performance. Which is fine imho. I had the 1DX II, Nikon D5, Canon 5DMKIII and the Sony A7R II up set to RAW and then took a tour of different ISO levels. Overall things were not that different when you stayed within normal shooting range (under 3200). The Sony was the worst, followed by the MKIII, 1DX II and the D5. But none of them were bad at all. The 1DX MKI was talked about as being the best ever for sports shooting and ISO. Obviously Canon could not top that with the MKII but it really did not need topping so to speak.

                      If the sports community is less than impressed compared to the 1DX MKI then Canon might have to look to the video side for more sales in the future once the initial buzz dies down.

                      Comment


                        Personally, while I understand what people are trying to show with the "under exposed, then pushed" images, I prefer looking at what I'd be shooting. Yet another sample of crops:

                        Actual Pixel Quality (100% crops from sensors):






                        Resolution Compensated Pixels (images sized to equal size—high res sensors benefits):






                        These aren't earth shattering benefits. These pixel peeping studies, while interesting to see where we're at, are totally irrelevant to me.

                        The 1Dx mkII brings two awesome things to the table: 60 fps in full quality and DPAF… and it gives up Canon Log (compared to 1Dc). For me, the cameras importance is MUCH more related to those things than any incremental improvements in sensor tech at this point.

                        What lets me down the most is that I think the 1Dx mkII sensor would be a stellar performer with Canon Log. It's a shame it's not there.

                        PS. Frame grabs captured on a Retina screen and were left untouched.
                        @andreemarkefors

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                          I look forward to extensive video comparisons between the 1DX II and 1DC. Until then, it is really hard to know what to expect from these photo examples. Don't forget that if you shoot and view 60/50fps 4K footage on an 60/50fps 4K monitor it will appear as though it was shot at a higher resolution relative to any 24/25fps 4K footage (given that you will have to compensate for the light loss of HFR by increasing exposure). Although that is the "soap opera" effect that you may not want!

                          We've also had several 1DC shooters like Abraham Joffe claim that the ISO performance has been improved on the 1DX II's video mode. It could all be part of Canon's promotional rhetoric, but I doubt that someone like Joffe would make such a claim if he wasn't seeing it in his own footage.

                          And Canon Log is conspicuously absent for intentional reasons as we've already discussed. Canon didn't simply overlook this feature and I'm 99.9% sure that they will not add it through a firmware update. They are either planning on keeping the 1DC around until they sell all the retail stock or they will replace it with a 1DC II in about a year.
                          Last edited by Kinok; 05-05-2016, 07:10 AM.

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                            As a 1DC owner, I would like to switch to the 1DX II for the Autofocus and HFR, but there are a couple of things holding me back. I could take or leave C-Log, so that isn't a big deal. First, I do a lot of events and interviews and the 30 minute cap is obnoxious. Second, there isn't any decent 1080p or highly compressed modes available. All you have is 4K at high bit rate for decent video. You don't even have UHD that you could record externally for 1080p. The killer feature on the 1DC was the S35 mode and it is by far my most used mode. I'm sure that there are some people who only shoot 4K short take videos for whom the 1DX II would be a step up, but the 1DX II isn't as good as the 1DC for interviews and events.

                            I think that waiting for a 1DC II is foolish, though. All of my experience with the 1DC and Canon tells me that the 1DC concept is dead.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by cpreston View Post
                              I think that waiting for a 1DC II is foolish, though. All of my experience with the 1DC and Canon tells me that the 1DC concept is dead.
                              I'm not sure that Canon knows what is going to happen to the 1DC. They are also watching the 1DX II sales and profit margins and hoping that good sales will give them room to do whatever they want with these cameras.

                              One thing is for sure: the 1DX II has demonstrated that Canon can build a highly capable 1D camera that in many ways outperforms the 1DC in terms of raw processing power, heat management for 4K 60fps, and recording data rate (800 Mbps). They delivered all of this performance for only $6K retail, or exactly half the 1DC's release price. That is a monumental achievement if they are able to reduce their costs by cutting them in half or less. This is also why I believe that a 1DC II is a distinct possibility. If it doesn't cost Canon much more to produce than the 1DX II, then Canon might indeed act to expand their market share of videographers who might be tempted to look elsewhere in the absence of a proper 1DC replacement. A 1DC II priced just above the 1DX II but focusing more on video features and released exactly one year from now would be my guess.

                              This would also explain why Canon is so cryptic on the 1DC's future. They have some of their reps infer that the 1DX II is the convergence of the two 1D lines. Yet there is no official statement from Canon on this issue and for good reason. They want to leave open the option for "double dipping."
                              Last edited by Kinok; 05-06-2016, 10:49 AM.

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                                I think they are starting to really have no choice with the costs when companies around them are offering very similar products for less money.

                                Who would buy a Canon 1DC Mark II for $12K today, you know?

                                I understand $16K for the C300 Mark II because a lot of that is for the name, but I personally still consider that a high price tag for that specific camera and its features.

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