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Proper credit for someone you give your script to for feedback, and they give advice?

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    Proper credit for someone you give your script to for feedback, and they give advice?

    Hello,

    What is the proper credit for someone you give your script to read, then they give advice/ideas which you either take, partially take, or ignore in your next draft?

    Is it script editor? script advisor?

    Thanks.

    #2
    Try the search function... this has been discussed several times. Certainly in the last 6 months.

    Comment


      #3
      The US TV often calls it "script consultant". If the contribution is minor or compensation is large, "special thanks" often suffices.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Budgieboots View Post
        What is the proper credit for someone you give your script to read, then they give advice/ideas which you either take, partially take, or ignore in your next draft?
        If you (partially) take their ideas, and it is not entirely script-technical, don't they legally become co-writers?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Budgieboots View Post
          Hello,

          What is the proper credit for someone you give your script to read, then they give advice/ideas which you either take, partially take, or ignore in your next draft?

          Is it script editor? script advisor?

          Thanks.
          If I tried to get credit for all the story, character, and structure ideas I've shared with fellow screenwriters over the years... well, let's just say the 'screenwriter' section of my imdb page would have a lot more entries.

          Provided a person doesn't take advantage of it and that one has trustworthy friends (I do), then I'll help out with a friend's screenplay or novel or whatever if my time is available. Usually I end up with a special thanks or something but even that isn't really necessary. They do the same for me. What goes around comes around.

          That said, it sounds like you might be trying to do this person who gave you notes a solid, so kudos to you.

          This podcast takes a deep dive on vagaries of screen credit that's well worth a listen/read: https://johnaugust.com/2015/scriptno...ork-transcript
          https://kohlsudduth.com/
          http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0837173/

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Budgieboots View Post
            What is the proper credit for someone you give your script to read, then they give advice/ideas which you either take, partially take, or ignore in your next draft?
            Executive producer ;)

            Seriously, often no credit at all. I would expect it common practice for a writer of any level to get advice from family and friends, colleagues and bosses. It's just part of the writing process. A nonfiction book often has that long page of Acknowledgments ("Thank you to Bert and Ernie for their valuable proofreading") but novels and movies seem to have no room for that.

            And it's standard practice for the director to play a major role in revising the script. In fact, it can become a horror story if a director signs on, orders changes, leaves; then several other directors sign on, make their own revisions, then leave. William Goldman describes exactly that in Adventures in the Screen Trade. The Hunt for Red October was first written by Larry Ferguson. The director John McTiernan says in the official behind-the-scenes DVD interview that he heavily rewrote it. And if you saw Larry Ferguson's movie right before, The Presidio --- I'm sorry, terrible. Hunt for Red October: brilliant. Presidio: terrible. John McTiernan: zero writing credit.

            Originally posted by jagraphics View Post
            Try the search function...
            Now that's just mean. This site's search is a torture implement. However, thankfully, Google offers site-specific search, with the site: keyword. For example:

            screenplay credit site:dvxuser.com

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by combatentropy View Post
              Executive producer ;)

              Seriously, often no credit at all. I would expect it common practice for a writer of any level to get advice from family and friends, colleagues and bosses. It's just part of the writing process. A nonfiction book often has that long page of Acknowledgments ("Thank you to Bert and Ernie for their valuable proofreading") but novels and movies seem to have no room for that.

              And it's standard practice for the director to play a major role in revising the script. In fact, it can become a horror story if a director signs on, orders changes, leaves; then several other directors sign on, make their own revisions, then leave. William Goldman describes exactly that in Adventures in the Screen Trade. The Hunt for Red October was first written by Larry Ferguson. The director John McTiernan says in the official behind-the-scenes DVD interview that he heavily rewrote it. And if you saw Larry Ferguson's movie right before, The Presidio --- I'm sorry, terrible. Hunt for Red October: brilliant. Presidio: terrible. John McTiernan: zero writing credit.
              Totally agree 100%. Definitely executive producer.

              Great examples in this post. Thanks for sharing.

              Brought to mind Alexander Mackendrick and the fact that he heavily rewrote most of the scripts he directed and was never credited. If I recall correctly, he saw it as a very skillful way to collaborate - meaning he could rewrite as necessary for the good of the story without creating fear in the writer that he or she was going to lose credit. A true gentleman and an adroit collaborator at that.
              https://kohlsudduth.com/
              http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0837173/

              Comment


                #8
                Interesting thread. Not to take this too far off topic - but I would think on any good collaboration - a true collaboration - each person involved brings "help" to the original script - especially in the indie / small budget category. I know in my little world (corporate, small commercial), I tend to work with folks that make me look better. So - if I'm the DP, I want a grip / gaffer who brings in suggestions or feedback on lighting the scene. And if I were the writer, I would certainly want feedback from folks I respect. I assume this is often why certain directors / writers (Woody Allen, Cohen Bros come to mind) often work with same team of people.

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                  #9
                  A friend of a friend worked on Seinfeld - barely a line of his script remained in the shooting draft, as it was entirely rewritten by Larry David. The writer still got the credit for the whole show. (Larry David got the money ... and gobs of it).

                  Another story - SJ Perelman, one of the top comedy writers of the 1920's-1960's, was given an assignment to write a feature film screenplay for Marx Brothers. Big money involved. He was even invited to the film's premiere. He said it took him about forty minutes of screen time until he recognized a line that he actually wrote. The Marx Brothers pretty much rewrote the whole film. And not only did they rewrite it, they also performed it in front of alive audience. And, if a gag failed, out it went.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    vaguely inspired by something that person A actually did
                    as retold by B over a campfire
                    to C, who loosely based a novel on it
                    which person D borrowed from (along with 2 other novels by X and Y) to turn into a screenplay
                    which person E bought the rights to
                    and ordered rewrites by D
                    but eventually hired on his own favorite script doctor, F,
                    and then hired director G,
                    who brought on his favorite writer H
                    who rewrote it some more
                    but then director G quit
                    and it went to director I,
                    who brought on his favorite writer, J,
                    and they finally started shooting,
                    and director I coaxed many improvizations from actors K, L, and M,
                    along with a cool idea on set from best boy N,
                    and then it was edited by O,
                    who cut some lines, and rearranged others, while director I sat beside.


                    "written by D"

                    True story.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      And a typical one too.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Usually if you pay someone for coverage, or say a script doctor for notes for example, they are not credited with anything. Script consultant or script editor could be suitable, that's up to you and also the arrangement you had with them.

                        I get lots of free advice on scripts I am looking to buy, or I give advice on scripts my friends give me to read - no credits are offered or given. We are generally ok with that.

                        Here's where it gets different, if someone takes a script and rewrites it they become the "writer" as credited in the movie industry and the original writer may be credited "story by" or nothing at all. It depends what was in the contract.

                        Most writers will want a clause in the contract to be first in line to do any rewrites, but writers also have the issue of producers not paying the writer to do rewrites so while an option can last a year why should writers do all this work for free and not get paid? If a writer refuses to continue with rewrites during a contract, it could leave the producer looking for other ways to get the rewrites done. Again, it depends what is in the contract.

                        The movie industry is a very tricky beast, and it's no wonder there are so many love hate relationships.
                        Dennis Hingsberg

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by combatentropy View Post
                          vaguely inspired by something that person A actually did
                          as retold by B over a campfire
                          to C, who loosely based a novel on it
                          which person D borrowed from (along with 2 other novels by X and Y) to turn into a screenplay
                          which person E bought the rights to
                          and ordered rewrites by D
                          but eventually hired on his own favorite script doctor, F,
                          and then hired director G,
                          who brought on his favorite writer H
                          who rewrote it some more
                          but then director G quit
                          and it went to director I,
                          who brought on his favorite writer, J,
                          and they finally started shooting,
                          and director I coaxed many improvizations from actors K, L, and M,
                          along with a cool idea on set from best boy N,
                          and then it was edited by O,
                          who cut some lines, and rearranged others, while director I sat beside.


                          "written by D"

                          True story.
                          Not just hilarious, but also true indeed. I have been A, B, D, F, H, K-M, and O many times and hope to play those 'roles' many more.

                          I'm remembering a play I acted in some years ago and the writer was struggling to cut down a speech. We went high into the theater rafters and I improvised for 30 minutes. Next day, those improvisations were in the play and live on in the published version today. All part of the process.

                          Originally posted by starcentral View Post
                          Usually if you pay someone for coverage, or say a script doctor for notes for example, they are not credited with anything. Script consultant or script editor could be suitable, that's up to you and also the arrangement you had with them.

                          I get lots of free advice on scripts I am looking to buy, or I give advice on scripts my friends give me to read - no credits are offered or given. We are generally ok with that.

                          Here's where it gets different, if someone takes a script and rewrites it they become the "writer" as credited in the movie industry and the original writer may be credited "story by" or nothing at all. It depends what was in the contract.

                          Most writers will want a clause in the contract to be first in line to do any rewrites, but writers also have the issue of producers not paying the writer to do rewrites so while an option can last a year why should writers do all this work for free and not get paid? If a writer refuses to continue with rewrites during a contract, it could leave the producer looking for other ways to get the rewrites done. Again, it depends what is in the contract.

                          The movie industry is a very tricky beast, and it's no wonder there are so many love hate relationships.
                          This is all true in my experience as well. Script doctoring I've done has gone uncredited. The most 'known' script doctor example that comes to mind is Carrie Fisher - who did uncredited rewrites and dialogue polishes for many years.

                          For WGA members, if there's a dispute over a rewrite, there's a very very specifically articulated process for determining who gets credit for writing the script . It gets super granular, but that's what's required when there's a whole lot of money at stake.

                          The thing about unpaid rewrites is a really difficult line to navigate. It comes up on some level with every job. It puts my drive and inspiration to write something really strong directly at odds with making sure I get paid for my time and work. It's a tough one.
                          https://kohlsudduth.com/
                          http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0837173/

                          Comment


                            #14
                            And all of the above involves the single person rewrites. A while back, when the "Flintstones" came out in 1994, the producers used a sitcom style "gang bang" - a bunch of writers in a room, trying to come up with decent jokes - and that film ended up with anywhere from 32 to 35 writers contributing in some shape or form.

                            http://www.avclub.com/article/read-w...s-movie-223656

                            As Kohl might know, setup-punchline driven sitcoms have used and are still using this type of a process. This makes it difficult even for the studios execs. They might think that a credited writer is responsible for all the great gags in a given episode but the bulk of the best jokes is often generated by someone else. Then a studio might give this credited writer a lot of money to develop new shows, only to discover that his/her scripts barely include a giggle. If one goes through the big money deals given to writers from "Seinfeld", "Married ... with Children", "Murphy Brown", "Simpsons", etc., one'd find a lot of written off contracts.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by DLD View Post
                              As Kohl might know, setup-punchline driven sitcoms have used and are still using this type of a process. This makes it difficult even for the studios execs. They might think that a credited writer is responsible for all the great gags in a given episode but the bulk of the best jokes is often generated by someone else. Then a studio might give this credited writer a lot of money to develop new shows, only to discover that his/her scripts barely include a giggle. If one goes through the big money deals given to writers from "Seinfeld", "Married ... with Children", "Murphy Brown", "Simpsons", etc., one'd find a lot of written off contracts.
                              Most of my comedy experience has been on-camera, years ago, luxuriating in the hard won fruits of the writers' work. Really tough job writing comedy. The people I know that can do it on their own and be consistently funny are a special breed. Beyond my current skill level. That said, comedy brainstorms I've been involved in have been a whole heckuva lot of fun when it's going well. Great way to spend an afternoon.
                              https://kohlsudduth.com/
                              http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0837173/

                              Comment

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