Location permits, Help Please!

[ColdAndFrightened]

Hi everyone,

Love the forums here, learned a lot! I've got a big question.... I'm planning on shooting a micro budget feature, and we're not going to be able to get a lot of the permits for the locations we're going to be shooting at.

A few of the big locations we will get permits for, but there's a lot that we won't. Most of them will be indistinguishable places though (like an empty field, a forrest area, an alleyway, etc.).

Anyway, my question is what happens if (please oh please) somewhere down the line I'm able to sell the film to a distributor... is it a big deal if I don't have some of those location permits (as long as they're the indistinguishable locations, and I have permits for anywhere that someone could figure out from just watching the film)?

Please help! Thanks!!

[pmark23]

The only reason for permits is to prevent you from bothering everyone while you're shooting. Nobody cares the day after if you had the permit or not.

[Wilshireblvd]

Where do you live? Are you in the US? Check the statutes of your state if you are. Many states are "Right-to-work" and will not require you to get permits. In Nebraska, for example, I can film anywhere on public property (including sidewalks, streets, parks, etc) without getting permits. (however, the city of Omaha appreciates communication so they know how to respond when some paranoid citizen calls them wondering what's going on) Omaha will even provide police and road closings for free...so check with your state and city officials. If you're in a right to work state, they will probably help you more than you expect.

Second...location permits have absolutely nothing to do with distribution rights. A Best Buy storefront can be seen from a public park or city street, and therefore requires no rights acquisition. It's always a good idea to let the business know you're going to be filming out front...but again...in a right-to-work state...not mandatory. As far as indistinguishable locations...forgetaboutit and go film it!

However, for distribution there are other things you need to watch out for. For example if you show a Pepsi can or your character is watching Indiana Jones, you need to consider your potential distribution issues. A Pepsi can is hit and miss...you can probably get away with it. Indiana Jones playing in the background? Not so much.

Keep in mind that unless you are filming in LA, NY, or Chicago without a permit, the worst that will likely happen is police coming and asking you to clean up and move along. Check wikipedia or google to find a list of right-to-work states...where you won't have to worry about this. It's why I work in Omaha! Hope this helps. Good luck.

[ColdAndFrightened]

Thanks for the info guys.

WilshireBlvd: Unfortunately we'll be shooting in California and possibly Oregon, which aren't "Right to work" states. Does that change anything, or do I still not have to worry about it?

Oh I'm definitely keeping my eye on logos and whatnot to avoid any of those possible headaches.

pmark23: Sounds good to me!

Seriously though, thanks for the info!

I'll probably be back soon enough with some more questions.

[David W. Richardson]

First off, don't take legal advice from virtual strangers on a website. If it's important, then talk to a professional.

The other issue you need to be concerned about is liability. What happens if you damage something on someone else's property? Or your boom guy breaks his leg? Or a loose board falls and breaks your camera? Permits help bolster the case that the owner (or government entity) was fully informed of your presence, and you had permission to be there. That might go a long way come lawsuit time.

But again, talk to a legal professional.

[Wilshireblvd]

Thanks for the info guys.

WilshireBlvd: Unfortunately we'll be shooting in California and possibly Oregon, which aren't "Right to work" states. Does that change anything, or do I still not have to worry about it?

Oh I'm definitely keeping my eye on logos and whatnot to avoid any of those possible headaches.

pmark23: Sounds good to me!

Seriously though, thanks for the info!

I'll probably be back soon enough with some more questions.

Yes, that will change things for you. I recommend you pick up the book called "The Independent Film Producer's Survival Guide" by Gunnar Erickson et al. It will give you lots of great legal advice that will keep you from running up a huge tab with your attorney. I think it's important that you have some sort of legal representation (especially if this is not a small production)...but this book will help you with the minor rules and regulations of filmmaking.

In California (and I'm serious about this), if you do things the wrong way, you may very well end up spending the night in jail. I know plenty of people who have. They don't mess around this the stuff. That's not to make you nervous...just to let you know to take CA filming laws VERY seriously. To a certain extent...that's why I left.

[ColdAndFrightened]

You mean this isn't a forum full of lawyers?! WHAT A SHAM!!!

=) I know, I take this all with a grain of salt, as with everything I read off the internet. Just wanted to get the general concensus of the good people of dvxuserville.

Thanks for the warnings guys. Good stuff to know.

[seandelgado]

Theres a general idea here mixing shooting permit vs location release. They're both about whats in the shot, but
one involves whats in the frame while the other involves what you have to do to get that frame.

[seandelgado]

you can get away without the permit, like someone else said, but certain buildings and landmarks in LA require a release.

[Gohanto]

First off, don't take legal advice from virtual strangers on a website. If it's important, then talk to a professional.

Reading that on an internet forum is a bit confusing unless you write "except this" at the end. and this. and this. and this... (you see where this is going)

[David W. Richardson]

Reading that on an internet forum is a bit confusing unless you write "except this" at the end. and this. and this. and this... (you see where this is going)

It's going into the realm of the ridiculous.

But the point is still......consult an attorney, even about whether or not you SHOULD consult an attorney.

[JonathanLB]

The only reason for permits is to prevent you from bothering everyone while you're shooting. Nobody cares the day after if you had the permit or not.

So true. It's like buying insurance, to be honest. I won't get a permit on a really low budget shoot if I can get away with it, because I'm willing to take the risk. In other words, if the whole shoot is $3,000, and the permit is $700, I can't justify that expense. I'll take the risk that my odds of being shut down are less than $700/$3000, as a percentage.

On my last video, though, it was too high budget to take any risks, so it was well worth having that permit, even though there were no complaints and no police patrols, etc.

I will say at this point if there is any real chance of being caught filming without a permit, like in a more populated location, I can't take that risk as co-owner of a production company because you'll get yourself barred from filming for a period of time, you'll have to show up in court and explain why you didn't have a permit, etc. They really make filming in CA difficult, and it's obvious why -- they don't want competition from the little guys. The big guys put these laws in place, they pull the strings, they make it all happen, so that YOU, the little guy, have to work for them as slaves, rather than make it on your own and challenge their supremacy. This has been obvious since I started figuring out the industry. It's all setup to screw the little guys and make you quit. Including equipment rental companies. They always rip you off if you're a little guy, unless you're renting in enough bulk or have the connections to get you better deals, which is why I mostly own the equipment I intend to use.

[Glen Gustafson]

"It's all setup to screw the little guys and make you quit."
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Actually it's all set up to keep you from setting up your camera crew on someone's front porch, then having your AD scream at the residents though a bullhorn when they try to open their own front door to go to work. Happened to a friend of mine in San Francisco.

So it's actually the big guys who brought this upon us. They don't view us as competition, by the way.

There used to be a permit exemption in L. A. if you had 3 or fewer people on the shoot, but I see now that they have become much more strict. For example in Santa Clarita if it isn't news or a wedding they want a permit, even for students.

It's not like a model release, though. You won't have to prove you had one to your distributor.