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    #16
    Originally posted by cyvideo View Post
    The old trusty Phantom 4 Pro is still filling that role quite satisfactorily for the time being. Sure I would like it to be smaller and easier to stow but I can live with what it is.

    Chris Young
    This is exactly how I feel at the moment. I'm based in US - so for me - the thing I am mostly looking for in an "upgrade" to my existing P4Pro - is that is comply with the FAA's remote ID - which "compliance" dates are not that far away. And it's strange to me that DJI doesn't have this somewhere in bold in their marketing materials.
    Straight from the FAA's site about remote ID...

    Next, there are compliance dates:
    • September 16, 2022:
      • Manufacturers and producers of UAS must comply with the final rule's requirements for them.
    • September 16, 2023:
      • Commercial and recreational UAS drone pilots must meet one of the three ways to comply with the rule when flying their drone.

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      #17
      The big issue with Remote ID compliance is, the specs that manufacturers have to comply with by next September haven't even been released yet.
      JERBCO, Ltd.
      jerbco.com

      Web | Video | Aerial

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        #18
        So I'll share my thoughts on the Mavic 3 Cine.

        For me, this is exactly the product I've been waiting for. As a solo shooter, I'm almost always working by myself. Every once in a while I get a project where I need a team and when that happens, I hire the guys I need which would include a dedicated aerial crew if necessary. But for most of my work, it's just me. My projects are commercial, corporate, documentary, large land real estate, events and live-streaming.

        I would wager to say about 50% of new customers I get ask me during our first meeting if I have a drone. This is common because customers today see the value in aerial shots, especially when their competitors have aerial shots in their videos or photos. This used to not be a question I got asked, but over the past four or five years it gets brought up by about 1 out of every 2 customers. As you can see, my clients value aerial shots, therefore I value them too.

        Up until now, we had really two viable options on the market. You could either A.) purchase a consumer drone with a 1/2" to 1" sensor or B.) you could purchase something like a DJI Inspire 2 with the Zenmuse X5 or X7 camera, or perhaps go even further to get something like a Freefly Alta, DJI Matrice, or something along those lines. Basically you were either getting a consumer drone, or you were investing a lot of money into a professional drone that is big, heavy, slow to setup and that is really meant to be flown by two people.

        Because of this, people like me who usually work alone, but who's customers want aerial shots, we were likely to just go the consumer drone route because anything else would set you back serious money and would be more of a hassle than you would likely want to deal with. For me, this was how I felt, so I have been working with a Phantom 4 Pro since 2016 and only this summer did I replace it with an Air 2S which is a nice little quadcopter, but isn't really that much better than what my P4P was IQ wise.

        When DJI announced the Mavic 3 Cine last week, it was the first time that I felt we had a different option, a middle option that was more than a consumer product, but that wouldn't set you back $7,500-15,000. A drone that had a Micro 4/3 sensor with a built-in 1TB SSD, ProRes HQ internal with 10-bit color, 5.1K up to 60p, 4K up to 120p, an incredible remote with a built-in high-bright screen that costs $1,200 by itself, and all of this in a small portable package that's quick to setup and that has Active Track modes, Point of Interest and other available modes that make getting complex shots as a single operator really easy. Plus, it has world class obstacle avoidance, a 47 minute flight time and comes with 8 ND filters, a 3 bay battery charger and a custom made bag to carry it all in. For $5,000, this is incredible.

        Just think about what I wrote in that last paragraph. If you read those specs 3 years ago, you wouldn't have believed me. This is where we are today and as a solo shooter, what more could you ask for? Anything this can't do, you need to hire a dedicated aerial team for and that is exactly how people like me will operate. And when you look at the rest of the market, there's really nothing else like it.

        The next closest option is the XDynamics Evolve 2 which is a $3,700 Micro 4/3 drone with the ability to use interchange lenses. In theory this is a great option, but in practice this product is already a year behind its original shipping date because it's made by a relatively small and unknown company who didn't have the ability to get their product out when they said they would. As such, would you want to trust their drone on a paid commercial shoot? It reminds me a lot of Blackmagic in its early days when they came out with interesting products at great price points, but they always missed their launch dates and usually came with some problems. For many, they couldn't put their job on the line with a BM camera, so they went with Canon or Sony who were companies you could trust. That's exactly how XDynamics feels, not to mention that their drone is much bigger than the Mavic 3 Cine, doesn't come with ND filters, only comes with one battery, and has a much shorter flight time. Plus, it also doesn't have the same Active Track modes or the other flight modes that the DJI Mavic 3 Cine has which means it won't be as easy to get complex shots with as a solo operator.

        As you can see, there's not really a lot of options out there like the Mavic 3 Cine. Even the Inspire 2 with the X5 camera costs more by the time you add the ProRes license and accessories ($7,100 starting price for the Inspire 2 X5S Advanced Kit) and that's 5 year old tech by this point, not to mention how much bigger and slower it is to use. So really your options are limited at this price point and for a drone that bridges the gap between consumer and professional.

        Speaking of the price, let's dissect that real quick. People keep saying that you're paying $2,000 extra for the Cine kit vs the Fly More Combo and that the only thing you're paying for is ProRes HQ. As such, many are arguing that you're paying $2K just for ProRes. But, that isn't true at all. You're getting a second set of ND filters ($180 value), a pro remote with a built-in High Bright screen ($1,200 value), a built-in 1TB drive (let's guess that's a $100-200 value) and the ProRes license which sells for $500 when you buy an Inspire 2 without the license, so let's call that a $500 value. When you add that all up, you're looking at $1,980-2,080 worth of add ons. That's where the $2,000 price increase comes from. So from that perspective, the DJI Mavic 3 Cine is priced appropriately and when you add the fact that it fills a gap in the market, it justifies its price even more. The only question is, is a $5,000 Mavic 3 Cine worth it to you?

        For me the answer is yes. I've been longing for a drone that had a Micro 4/3 sensor and that could record in a format that has enough data to capture the fine details you see from the air. Previous DJI drones with their H.265 codecs and smaller bitrates often look mushy as they didn't record enough data to handle the fine details. With ProRes HQ, that problem goes away. Plus from my understanding DJI's previous consumer drones shot 10-bit 4:2:0 in H.265 whereas the Mavic 3 Cine records in 10-bit 4:2:2 when recording in ProRes HQ. And if you don't want to deal with the amount of data you record in ProRes HQ for a certain project, you can always fall back to the H.265 codec to save space when needed and have the option to add up to a 2TB micro-SD card in the drone to give you a total of 3TB of space for H.265 projects which you will never fill up.

        Another point for me is that I hate editing H.265. It slows down my computer dramatically when working in post and is even a pain just to review on my laptop in a hotel at night. And if you need to stack shots, forget about it. As such I was always having to transcode my shots to ProRes to have smooth playback and manageable edits. With the Mavic 3 Cine, you no longer have to do that as you can record straight to ProRes HQ in camera. This saves a lot of time and as we all know, time is money. Therefore for people like me, this drone will literally save you money in the long run. Plus, while $5,000 may seem like a lot of money, if you're shooting stills or video professionally for a living, you'll make that back. It's simply another tool to help you do your job.

        So is the Mavic 3 Cine for everyone? No, it's not. Is it priced appropriately? I would argue yes. And is it worth it for some people? I would again argue yes as I myself am the target market for this product. So if you're like me, you get it and maybe you'll buy this drone to help you get footage from the air that can better match what you're getting on the ground. That's what I'm after as I don't want my drone shots to look like drone shots. I want them to look like aerial shots that are nothing more than a continuation of the story or video. I want something that can better cut with my FX6, A1 and A7SIII when shooting projects as a solo operator. And for those projects where I need something bigger, I'll just hire a dedicated aerial team. Those are my thoughts!
        Last edited by Joshua Milligan; 11-08-2021, 01:41 PM.

        Comment


          #19
          I think the Mavic 3 Cine is slightly overpriced for what it is. That Smart Controller is not really a big step up from the one they sold for $750 two weeks ago to go with the Mavic 2 Pro... but it's $1200 because that's what DJI decided it would cost for the Mavic 3. That said, while $5k is more than I'm interested in spending for it, I don't think it's "off the planet" expensive like some people have characterized it.

          The M3 "Smart Controller" might have justified $1200 if it had a bigger screen like the one for the Autel Evo II.

          My issue with the Mavic 3 Cine is the fact that the high-end recording is integrated into the drone itself and is NOT REMOVABLE. This seems like a minor inconvenience initially (it's gonna really suck to have your drone sitting there dumping ProRes HQ for an hour), but if you think about "what could go wrong" it's even worse.

          You crash your Mavic 3 Cine to the point where it won't "boot" to the point of having the disk accessible. If it had a removable card, you could likely pop that card into a reader and still get the footage you shot off of it. In the case of the Mavic 3 Cine's integrated SSD... you're relying on DJI to get that footage for you if they even claim they can. More likely, it's just gone because DJI isn't going to do a data transfer for you when you use one of your Care Refresh cases to get a new Mavic 3.

          I don't want non-removable media on my ground-based cameras... no way I'm going for it on my aerial camera (that are in a lot more risky situations).
          JERBCO, Ltd.
          jerbco.com

          Web | Video | Aerial

          Comment


            #20
            Can’t you still use the removable media as well or did I miss reading a part where you can’t (for ProRes?)?

            Comment


              #21
              Pretty sure ProRes has to go to the SSD… which is internal.
              JERBCO, Ltd.
              jerbco.com

              Web | Video | Aerial

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                #22
                Pro Res will only record to the SSD drive, and the connection for download is MP3 to computer. Unfortunately. Lose the drone, and lose the footage.
                David S.



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                  #23
                  Originally posted by David Saraceno View Post
                  Pro Res will only record to the SSD drive, and the connection for download is MP3 to computer. Unfortunately. Lose the drone, and lose the footage.
                  To try to avoid that, losing footage.

                  In the case of a mishap, I've frequently used the P4 Pro+ using its Clean Feed HDMI output which I can run at UHD 3840 x 2160 50/60p or full HD to a Ninja V and record ProRes on the fly. Most of my flying is fairly close range so it's rare I get much in the way of break up on the signal. Generally, I find I can use those Ninja V ProRes files for the primary edit and keep the card recordings as backups or in case of a WiFi drop out.

                  I've also used the HDMI out to feed a big screen on motorsport meets and also with an HDMI transmitter which I've found useful. The fact that the HDMI out on the Pro+ controller is a full-size HDMI and on the back of the unit and partially protected by the metal loop stand also offers a bit of connection security which I like. When checking with the Mavic 3 was surprised to see that the HDMI output is now totally exposed and on the front of the DJI RC Pro controller pointing straight at your chest basically and has also changed into a Mini HDMI port. Mini HDMI connectors rate highly on my pet hate connectors list! Surprised they did that. I guess one could always design/devise some kind on Mini HDMI cable clamp to make that output more secure.

                  P.S. EDIT:
                  I should have mentioned that this is all available under the P4 Pro+ GL300E_v1430_20200519 firmware update.

                  Chris Young
                  Last edited by cyvideo; 11-09-2021, 02:29 AM.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    You can put up to a 512GB micro SDXC card in the Mavic 3 Cine’s remote too to record a backup copy.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Yes I discovered that after digesting the manual. Still don't like the Mini HDMI for live work though.

                      Chris Young

                      https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/DJI_...al_v1.0_en.pdf

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Joshua Milligan View Post
                        You can put up to a 512GB micro SDXC card in the Mavic 3 Cine’s remote too to record a backup copy.
                        Yeah, you'll get a 1080P signal that's been run through the O3+ compressor for transmission down to the drone. Not sure I'd call that a "backup".

                        Hopefully while it's recording ProRes to the SSD, it can at least put h.265 onto the MicroSD card.
                        JERBCO, Ltd.
                        jerbco.com

                        Web | Video | Aerial

                        Comment


                          #27
                          I feel Autel EVO II with 6K resolution is a better copter. Of course there is no ProRes.
                          Sabyasachi Patra / Wild Tiger Productions
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                            #28
                            Originally posted by jbregar View Post

                            Yeah, you'll get a 1080P signal that's been run through the O3+ compressor for transmission down to the drone. Not sure I'd call that a "backup".
                            Almost par for the course these days. I shudder every time we are use LiveU units to stream live football for Stan Sports. All cameras streamed to the studio, direction via phone the app "Unity" and then switched in studio, commentary called, graphics added and out it goes as a complete live stream to all those hungry viewers. All said and done that highly compressed H.265 stream, 7Mbps per camera stands up surprisingly well. As I said I've had little problem with the live stream out of the P4 Pro+ controller to ProRes. Granted not the best but for many here today and gone tomorrow productions it's all becoming more the norm.

                            Chris Young

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Sure. Or you could use a drone that records its footage to a removable card and avoid the situation altogether.

                              My clients are by and large fine with the 10-bit h.265 off of my M2Pro and Autel Evo II Pro. They'd be very happy with ProRes 422... but they'd hit me upside the head if all I had to offer them because of a crash was a "live stream" quality 1080P signal recorded at the remote control.

                              If the M3 can simultaneously record h.265 to the SD card and ProRes to the SSD, that goes a long way towards alleviating that concern. I'm just not sure it can.
                              JERBCO, Ltd.
                              jerbco.com

                              Web | Video | Aerial

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                                #30
                                The Autel Evo II Pro only has a 1" sensor and doesn't have the ability to record to a codec as robust as ProRes. I fail to see how that's comparable to the DJI Mavic 3 Cine. In fact, I cannot believe that people are complaining about a $5,000 drone that's small and compact with the ability to record ProRes HQ to an SSD drive with a 4/3 sensor, 10-bit 4:2:2 color, 5.1K resolution up to 60p, 4K up to 120p, that also has a long flight time, 360 degree obstacle avoidance, and an incredible remote with a built-in high-bright screen. One that also comes with three batteries, a three bay battery charger, 6 pairs of props and 8 ND filters. How on earth is this a product we can complain about?

                                We must be living on different planets.
                                Last edited by Joshua Milligan; 11-09-2021, 10:23 AM.

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