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    #16
    Originally posted by hojomo View Post

    I have no problem imaging this kind of a workflow being commonplace much sooner than that. Another 15 years? I wonder how much narrative is going to be enmeshed in gameplay & VR worlds & the viewer choosing the focus & POV instead. That is probably more likely to be the norm, certainly this far out. Movies will still exist of course, but maybe audiences will demand some kind of enhanced personalization
    There will definitely be some sort of interactive entertainment like that. Why not, right? Someone will do it. But I also don't know how popular it will be for everyone because people don't want to think too much and have to do "work" while being entertained.

    But maybe there will be movies where you even make decisions like those books they used to have for kids where you had a choice to make after reading a few pages. You'd then turn to a certain page based on the choice you made and it would or could turn into a different story.

    As far as the mixture, the computer technology will continue to heavily change films. It's good and bad. A little depressing. It is what it is.

    Originally posted by rob norton View Post
    Haha nice future scenario. Shouldn't we have done away with physical keys by then?
    haha. Touché.

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      #17
      It looks great for a phone, and the tech behind it is fantastic, but it still looks like professionally lit low end DSLR to me. Apple certainly won’t be using it as an A cam for See or Ted Lasso. At the end of the day this camera is made from cheap sensor tech and is only a side feature in a $1,200 device filled with features.

      Imagine what Apple could do if they focused on making a professional camera using high end sensors, no consumer friendly constraints. Instead of cramming it all into a phone for around grand, they actually spread their wings to make a pro camera with a much higher price tag. I would love to see Apple swing for the fence and insert this tech into a legit cinema camera. A pro body with multiple S35 sensors fixed with the best glass out there. It could be revolutionary.

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        #18
        Rumors of them making a cinema camera started back to 2015 when they started working with RED on some stuff and briefly sold the RAVEN bundle in the Apple store for a year or so (lol on that), but nothing of course came out of it. I still think they could but I don't know if they'd be interested.

        Ideally they improve on this phone tech and actually offer a more expensive phone with better chips and company like RED planned to do.

        Maybe with some Apple-made modules for ProRes RAW and what not.

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          #19
          Originally posted by NorBro View Post

          The idea of turning a ring and engaging in this manual labor to make sure your image is clear is not a concept this future world will ever understand.
          I'm starting to get the impression that you really hate manual labor.

          Also - pulling focus is labor?
          www.VideoAbe.com

          "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." -Harvey

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            #20
            Well, of course it is. Unnecessary mental labor.

            Having to worry about focusing an image is silly.

            Stuff like that won't exist in the future.

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              #21
              And I don't mind manual physical labor using strength and endurance (lifting heavy stuff, digging holes, etc), but I don't like dumb technology mental labor.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by hojomo View Post

                I have no problem imaging this kind of a workflow being commonplace much sooner than that. Another 15 years? I wonder how much narrative is going to be enmeshed in gameplay & VR worlds & the viewer choosing the focus & POV instead. That is probably more likely to be the norm, certainly this far out. Movies will still exist of course, but maybe audiences will demand some kind of enhanced personalization
                Crucially, the imagined scenario involves people sitting around experimenting and then adjusting based on their emotional responses. What's been AI'd is largely the technicians and assistants. So, while the labor market would look vastly different, the creative process and product would not be substantially different
                www.VideoAbe.com

                "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." -Harvey

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by ahalpert View Post

                  Crucially, the imagined scenario involves people sitting around experimenting and then adjusting based on their emotional responses. What's been AI'd is largely the technicians and assistants. So, while the labor market would look vastly different, the creative process and product would not be substantially different
                  Classic ahalpert...

                  "Guys, wait, I'm not ready to be replaced yet!"

                  Your bar mitzvah filming days are over, pal! Get used to it!!

                  lol.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by NorBro View Post
                    Well, of course it is. Unnecessary mental labor.

                    Having to worry about focusing an image is silly.

                    Stuff like that won't exist in the future.
                    I guess... but with every post-production process, you still have to worry about setting yourself up for success. You'll still want to preview how the shot will look with different focus points so you know what you're getting and know that it's not going to suck later. Making beauty is not just about getting things in focus. The frame will look substantially different depending on where the focal plane is placed (or, perhaps, multiple focal planes)

                    And are these lenses self-cleaning? Someone will still have to clean them, although it could be a robot. Who repairs the robots? Just other robots?

                    Also- before you try yo tell me that beauty doesn't matter - turn on a Marvel movie and bow to the craftsmanship
                    Last edited by ahalpert; 09-15-2021, 12:24 AM.
                    www.VideoAbe.com

                    "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." -Harvey

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by NorBro View Post

                      Classic ahalpert...

                      "Guys, wait, I'm not ready to be replaced yet!"

                      Your bar mitzvah filming days are over pal! Get used to it!!

                      lol.
                      As an editor, I would have been replaced in the scenario you depicted. I'm commenting on what would change and what would remain the same. You still wouldn't have computers actually making art for you. Just assisting you. Which is all they will ever do until they have the right to own themselves and market their output themselves and be the boss

                      as far as shooting weddings goes - the smart play, if robots invade the space, is to buy some and become a manager. Sort of like how studios outsource editing to 3rd world countries now to lower costs and increase capacity. I'd be sad not to shoot, but I'd be ideally positioned to transition
                      www.VideoAbe.com

                      "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant." -Harvey

                      Comment


                        #26
                        We've already had this conversation before multiple times at 4am in the morning.

                        I already told you that I think both choices will exist.

                        Humans will work with machines with very little input from the machines.

                        And machines will make choices on their own for certain content that is uploaded every day and doesn't need to be supervised in a very fast-paced world.

                        No creativity will exist here because it will just be content - content - content and any number of editing calculations will work 365 days a year, 7 days a week.

                        That is how it will work.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by NorBro View Post
                          We've already had this conversation before multiple times at 4am in the morning.

                          I already told you that I think both choices will exist.

                          Humans will work with machines with very little input from the machines.

                          And machines will make choices on their own for certain content that is uploaded every day and doesn't need to be supervised in a very fast-paced world.

                          No creativity will exist here because it will just be content - content - content and any number of editing calculations will work 365 days a year, 7 days a week.

                          That is how it will work.
                          I don’t like it, but I believe it. Content quantity over quality is certainly where everything is trending.
                          Last edited by Bob Loblaw; 09-15-2021, 03:22 AM.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Perhaps I’m not getting something right here but this isn’t a way to correct focus in post as much as it’s moving focus between two perspectives. In order to change fine focus to essentially auto focus in post and fix focus it would need to be made up of dozens of images. This is not a AF replacement technology at all but a way to make small sensors act like bigger sensors and adjust focus between a single foreground and a single background element. You will notice every single focus pull in the mystery video only adjusted focus between two points and almost always by the same amount. It’s like a robot was pulling focus with a set of hard stops for what they could focus on.

                            if the iPhone 13 gets a shot out of focus it is still going to be out of focus.

                            plus depending on fixing the focus in post could lead to very costly mistakes. On set if we don’t like the way a focus pull worked we shoot it again. In post you may be able to get it right but what if the tech isn’t enough? Now you have to plan reshoots which could actually be impossible.

                            my understanding is this works like portrait mode where it uses the difference between two lenses to mask and determine depth between subjects in the frame. Raw photo formats on the iPhone have had the ability to adjust the focus in post for years now but it’s still very limited to the difference between the two lenses.

                            it’s also much harder to shoot thinking of how a focal change may work later in post. Shooters may not cover or frame what is needed correctly and be able to visualize how it will look later.

                            it’s a really neat tool and it will be put to great use but it is very far from a replacement. Focus isn’t a labor, it’s a creative tool that we use. I prefer the artist behind the one to make those creative judgements in the environment and when the subject is there. Doing it only in post makes it all too clinical like shooting a movie all on green screen where the actors have a hard time visualizing what they are acting against. We will end up will flat performances and convoluted lifeless content masked by constant changing focus because hey it’s easy to do.

                            At the end of the day it’s all very processed video. As most of us even move away from m43 to FF to have less processed looking video the iPhone just keeps piling the image processing onto an image. This will visually never be the same league of optical quality as glass moving in a lens. It’s a really cool faked version of it but it’s essentially a CGI Grand Moff Tarkin vs the real Peter Cushing. Cool tech to get the story made but there will always be something off about it.

                            Panasonic does have a better form of this for still photos where they do have multiple focused images that can adjust focus in many ways on a image. Eventually maybe video will get there as well but it’s still processed and it works on a DSLR because the sensor is larger and it’s using real lenses to shift that focus. So it’s sandwiching how the optical focus should look across dozens of images.

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                              #29
                              I view all this tech like food. We have instant meals where we rip it out of a box and nuke it for three minutes. It helps feed a ton of people around the world but we still have chefs and restaurants. We still have people that will manually chop the ingredients. We still sometimes prefer to spend an hour making our special soup at home vs using a can opener and heating up a can of soup.

                              just because we give more people easier to use options doesn’t mean the art dies. In many ways we can learn to appreciate it even more and start to value the quality of that home cooked meal. We eventually start to miss the creativity, humanity and quality as we live through monotonous lives of canned soups, TV dinners and fast food.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Technically, any digital image is a combination of 1's and 0's and can be reconstructed the same way one does an upres in post. Over the last couple of years, the manipulation of images have gotten a lot more sophisticated too.

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