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    #21
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    This forum, boy. I'm not saying everybody has to be a Red shooter / Red fan, but if you personally hate them so much that you can't see that a cleanroom being used to do something ON THE NAB FLOOR that their competitors don't do ANYWHERE is really damn cool you've completely lost perspective.


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    #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Ruffo View Post
    Red Epic MX does beat Alexa in terms of resolution (by a lot - sometimes this is important), and if you use HDRX in terms of dynamic range. Epic is also much lighter than Alexa (often important), and I like the Red RAW SDK a lot better. It has more settings, and allows more flex in post in certain ways. Epic is a great tool, and more practical than Alexa in many situations.

    So this claim was valid in many ways.
    Also it's not like Alexa and RED are in the same price bracket. Not by a long shot.


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    #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Saxon View Post
    This forum, boy. I'm not saying everybody has to be a Red shooter / Red fan, but if you personally hate them so much that you can't see that a cleanroom being used to do something ON THE NAB FLOOR that their competitors don't do ANYWHERE is really damn cool you've completely lost perspective.
    I think people just want to see footage not publicity stunts. The colour science isn't even done yet and Jannard stated it wouldn't be released till it was absolutely perfect. Don't know what that means for people who have a new sensor now without any function at the moment.

    Is lining up for a $10K sensor upgrade without seeing any finished footage and only a 90 day warranty loyalty or fanboyism? Up to each to decide. I know what I think.

    I like Red cameras but don't like the attitude they exude. Its a good time to be a new buyer into red. The price on an Epic Dragon new with a 2 yr warranty is fantastic.


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    #24
    Senior Member Zacatac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Saxon View Post
    This forum, boy. I'm not saying everybody has to be a Red shooter / Red fan, but if you personally hate them so much that you can't see that a cleanroom being used to do something ON THE NAB FLOOR that their competitors don't do ANYWHERE is really damn cool you've completely lost perspective.

    I agree, as soon as somebody told me that RED had built a Clean Room on the show floor, I rolled my eyes (in a good way) and said that it was fantastic marketing. Seriously everybody at NAB either was talking about, or knew about it. Even if it was all for show, and those cameras they were working on weren't for actual production. It's pretty good marketing, and every other competitor who was looking for something "new" at NAB for exposition, is kicking themselves.


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    #25
    Senior Member dustylense's Avatar
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    I agree with RatLab. While RED had completely brainwashed their customers with marketing it's quite interesting that people let them plop a sensor in a camera without a single moving example of the upgrade. We just have a lizard shot to look at. "Here ya go, a new sensor". Great, can't wait to shoot with it next week. "Ummm, the firmware isn't ready and won't be ready until we say it is". Sure, it's great that RED does in fact upgrade their cameras and I'm sure many people buy into that notion.

    I really don't think anyone hates the "camera". I think some people dislike the attitude behind the camera, both from RED themselves on down to fanboyism. "I shoot a RED, what do you shoot"? Well, I'll shoot with whatever gets the job done and sometimes that might just be a RED or maybe a C300. Maybe it's a Gh2 and maybe an HDSLR. Apples and oranges arguments. But with RED its more of an occult. BMD camera fanboys are becoming quite the same.

    It's the second that a camera company has to sell their product by bashing other products that I stop and think twice (or how about when they go as far as suing the other camera???). Build a nice camera and let the camera speak for itself. "Here it is. Here's what it can do. And here are some pretty pictures so you can judge for yourself".

    I like what RED has done. Don't get me wrong. Great camera and features. I like what BMD had done. Great image for a great price. But I also like what Sony has done, Canon has done, and even Panny even though they have gone silent in the large chip ballpark. I'm a fanboy of all these cameras. Sort of like liking the NFL and not just the Dallas Cowboys. I don't focus just on a team, but instead look at lots of players that play the sport well.

    It was different though, the cleanroom. RED is really good at marketing. But no matter how unique it was, I'd rather see moving images of what the sensor does....


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    #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Saxon View Post
    This forum, boy. I'm not saying everybody has to be a Red shooter / Red fan, but if you personally hate them so much that you can't see that a cleanroom being used to do something ON THE NAB FLOOR that their competitors don't do ANYWHERE is really damn cool you've completely lost perspective.
    Indeed. Another truth is part of the hate comes from the fact Jim is a rich man and Jarred has succeeded as President of this company. Personally, I am proud of seeing this to happen and they're still answering me whenever I need to speak with any one of them. But RED brand is slashed over here in the same boards where they launched RED, years after. Funny to say the least. I guess this tells a bit about the nonsense of this attitude.
    RED ONE @home
    #111
    Emanuel & Co's RED ONE
    #647
    RED ZOOM LENSES
    #156
    #157
    RED 300mm LENS
    #82
    Who am I?

    * LINK *
    ** IMDb **


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    #27
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    That clean room was just a bunch of window dressing. I watched the guy for 10 minutes flip the camera over and over and 'inspect' the exterior. he puts it down and picks it up and does the same thing.
    my 2 cents
    AC160a, AC130a, BMD HyperDeck mini, PPro5.5 on custom build PC
    retired: JVC HM700U, Panny HMC80, Panny DVC30 (and all other taped based cameras SVHS and Beta), NanoFlash


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    #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emanuel View Post
    Indeed. Another truth is part of the hate comes from the fact Jim is a rich man and Jarred has succeeded as President of this company.
    Based on what have you drawn that conclusion? I'd say most peoples dislike for Jim (including mine) is the way he conducts himself and his business. Lot of examples out there of Jim throwing a tantrum and rubbing a lot of people the wrong way.

    I like what RED has done and I do like their cameras but I don't buy into the cult of personality Jim has set up for himself and his fanboys. Between that and the teenage faux military language I can't help but roll my eyes.


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    #29
    Senior Member dregenthal's Avatar
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    My only disappointment with Red is that I can't currently afford one but I'm all in for what they're doing and what they have done.
    You might remember there where a lot if skeptics in the early days . . . Who have since been silenced, <g>.

    Attitude? Yeah, we'll if I don't actually think about it I might take some of that the wrong way but so long as they set themselves apart with product (which in my view they surely have) then I think a certain amount of attitude is warranted.
    The behavior and our responses to it remind me of the old coke vs. Pepsi generation commercials.

    They are different, the conduct their business differently . . . It's IMHO the "cool factor" . . . I've got no objection to that, and frankly think some of the other manufacturers could take a lesson from from Red on that and other fronts. I can think of more than one manufacturer that could benefit from a little cool . . .
    Canon 70-200 & 24-70, Rokinon 35, 50, 85, 135, GH4, Lumix 20, 12-35, 35-100, 100-300.


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    #30
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    As a devout protestant I never ever will put my hands onto a catholic camera.


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