16 mm camera - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

avr · 07-18-2005, 11:54 AM

I always have been a video guy but I love the film cameras and i am thinking to purchase a 16 mm. camera. I like the Arri, Bolex ...

i would like to shoot a shor film in 16 mm. but I don´t know if is more expensive this. Someone knows the cost of the film+transfer to a digital tape (DV-Dvcam)?
what camera is a good choice (medium cost... Arri, Bolex..?

I´m missing with this but I´m sure that in this forum there are a lot of people that can learn me and to avoid mistakes.
Thanks a lot

Dyrseve989 · 07-18-2005, 02:19 PM

Are you looking for syncsound cameras?, quiet cameras? Powered cameras? winding cameras?

You can check out normal rates of film and transfer(just remmber 50ft of film at 24fps, is about 2 1/2 min) www.a1filmlab.com

Get back to me on what type of camera, or what type of short you plan n making, and I'll make some suggestions

-Matt-

bokser · 07-18-2005, 03:33 PM

I own and used an arri 16BL on 2 shorts...
it is a loud ass camera...
but problems can be avoided with carefull planning and some leather (over the camera).

it shoots only 24fps... no variable as some film cameras have
also it is not an exact 24fps... since the motor isn't cystal synced (runs around $800 bucks for that motor to get exact 24fps)
but usually the sound drifts off a bit and I just correct it in post...

I'm right now editing one of the shorts shot with it, but it wont be available to see for a while... if your in no rush check out www.bokserfilms.com in a few months and you can see some images from it.

its a big camera and not easy to hand hold (like 22 lbs.), but for a $3k 16mm camera its worth the trouble.

I found mine on ebay... and I would recommend it...
but it needs servicing to keep it in tip top shape.

as far as costs for film and development

get a student id card... go to kodak and buy film for like 20% off (at least in NY)
then develop and bring your student card as well... get 10-20% off.
10 minutes of film is approx 120 to 130 bucks using vision2 from kodak
I forget the developing costs... but all you have to tell them is to transfer from the negative directly to miniDV... I believe most places only do to mini DVCAM tapes if asked... so you need a deck to be able to play them... or convert them to mini DV

hope that helps... or confuses you further

discs of tron · 07-19-2005, 09:23 AM

the cheapest sync-sound camera you'll probably find would be the cinema products cp16. they're a bit of a pain in the ass but they're totally functional.

blckhawk542 · 07-19-2005, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bokser

get a student id card...

Where you gonna get a student ID card? dont you have to be part of like a film school to get one?

avr · 07-19-2005, 03:06 PM

thanks a lot for the replies.
well i think that I don´t need a syncsound camera, the audio was recorded into a minidisc or a CF recorder.
The kind of the short film that i want.... ummm, I have a lot of projects but i am thinking in a terror-suspense by night... but i´m not sure. i´m looking for a specific look for this short film and I want to learn with a film camera.

thanks again

Barry_Green · 07-19-2005, 03:37 PM

I don't think you understand what a sync-sound camera is. No film camera records sound. (and yes, that's an exaggeration, and no, we don't need to talk about Auricons, I'm talking about the practical state of the industry today).

You never record sound on the film. The sound always gets recorded on some other medium (whether Nagra or DAT or even on a videocamera). But a "sync-sound" camera is one that has two distinct features:
1) a crystal-controlled or AC synchronous motor, to provide precise running speed control
2) quiet.

Non-sync cameras aren't precisely speed-controlled, and can be extremely noisy -- EXTREMELY. Sync cameras like the CP16, Arri 16BL, Eclair etc. are much, much quieter. You can usually still hear them, but it's a tiny purr, vs. the sewing-machine growl of a Bolex or Krasnogorsk or Beaulieu.

So if you intend to record any audio at all, you want a sync camera.

discs of tron · 07-19-2005, 05:13 PM

but if you want to be reminded of the greatness that can be achieved with mos cams, watch any sergio leone western, any of the old disney nature doc-dramas (gentle ben, etc,) or, as everyone is quick to point out, el mariachi. plenty of others are out there. if your horror thing is light on dialogue (or you can shoot the reverse angle whenever anyone talks, like leone,) and most of the effects can be foley'd in (which for any horror flick should be true,) a hand-wound mos cam should be fine. and the bolex will probably outlive every dvx in existence.

Dyrseve989 · 07-19-2005, 06:00 PM

As stated above - and from my own experience(and stubborness) NEVER FILM WITH A NON-SYNC SOUND CAMERA!!!!!!! - You will drive to yourself to the nut house after the first 100' of film

-Matt-

Dyrseve989 · 07-19-2005, 06:01 PM

^(correction) NEVER FILM A SOUND FILM WITH A NON-SYNC SOUND CAMERA!!!!!!! - (big difference)

07-18-2005, 11:54 AM	#1
avr Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: x1\|Santiago de Compostela\|Spain\|europe\|86\|323\| Posts: 401	16 mm camera I always have been a video guy but I love the film cameras and i am thinking to purchase a 16 mm. camera. I like the Arri, Bolex ... i would like to shoot a shor film in 16 mm. but I don´t know if is more expensive this. Someone knows the cost of the film+transfer to a digital tape (DV-Dvcam)? what camera is a good choice (medium cost... Arri, Bolex..? I´m missing with this but I´m sure that in this forum there are a lot of people that can learn me and to avoid mistakes. Thanks a lot __________________ cine.formatoriginal VIMEO VIDEOS

07-18-2005, 03:33 PM	#3
bokser Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 116	I own and used an arri 16BL on 2 shorts... it is a loud ass camera... but problems can be avoided with carefull planning and some leather (over the camera). it shoots only 24fps... no variable as some film cameras have also it is not an exact 24fps... since the motor isn't cystal synced (runs around $800 bucks for that motor to get exact 24fps) but usually the sound drifts off a bit and I just correct it in post... I'm right now editing one of the shorts shot with it, but it wont be available to see for a while... if your in no rush check out www.bokserfilms.com in a few months and you can see some images from it. its a big camera and not easy to hand hold (like 22 lbs.), but for a $3k 16mm camera its worth the trouble. I found mine on ebay... and I would recommend it... but it needs servicing to keep it in tip top shape. as far as costs for film and development get a student id card... go to kodak and buy film for like 20% off (at least in NY) then develop and bring your student card as well... get 10-20% off. 10 minutes of film is approx 120 to 130 bucks using vision2 from kodak I forget the developing costs... but all you have to tell them is to transfer from the negative directly to miniDV... I believe most places only do to mini DVCAM tapes if asked... so you need a deck to be able to play them... or convert them to mini DV hope that helps... or confuses you further __________________ Vitaly Bokser Director of Photography RED ONE CAMERA OWNER / OPERATOR www.vitalybokser.com www.twitter.com/vitalybokser www.facebook.com/vitalybokser

07-19-2005, 03:06 PM	#6
avr Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: x1\|Santiago de Compostela\|Spain\|europe\|86\|323\| Posts: 401	16 mm. thanks a lot for the replies. well i think that I don´t need a syncsound camera, the audio was recorded into a minidisc or a CF recorder. The kind of the short film that i want.... ummm, I have a lot of projects but i am thinking in a terror-suspense by night... but i´m not sure. i´m looking for a specific look for this short film and I want to learn with a film camera. thanks again __________________ cine.formatoriginal VIMEO VIDEOS

07-19-2005, 03:37 PM	#7
Barry_Green Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 38,953	I don't think you understand what a sync-sound camera is. No film camera records sound. (and yes, that's an exaggeration, and no, we don't need to talk about Auricons, I'm talking about the practical state of the industry today). You never record sound on the film. The sound always gets recorded on some other medium (whether Nagra or DAT or even on a videocamera). But a "sync-sound" camera is one that has two distinct features: 1) a crystal-controlled or AC synchronous motor, to provide precise running speed control 2) quiet. Non-sync cameras aren't precisely speed-controlled, and can be extremely noisy -- EXTREMELY. Sync cameras like the CP16, Arri 16BL, Eclair etc. are much, much quieter. You can usually still hear them, but it's a tiny purr, vs. the sewing-machine growl of a Bolex or Krasnogorsk or Beaulieu. So if you intend to record any audio at all, you want a sync camera. __________________ .... The HMC Book The HMC150 Book The HVX Book The DVX Book HVX BootCamp DVD Sound For Film & TV

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

07-18-2005, 02:19 PM	#2
Dyrseve989 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 431	Are you looking for syncsound cameras?, quiet cameras? Powered cameras? winding cameras? You can check out normal rates of film and transfer(just remmber 50ft of film at 24fps, is about 2 1/2 min) www.a1filmlab.com Get back to me on what type of camera, or what type of short you plan n making, and I'll make some suggestions -Matt-

07-19-2005, 09:23 AM	#4
discs of tron Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: western mass Posts: 162	the cheapest sync-sound camera you'll probably find would be the cinema products cp16. they're a bit of a pain in the ass but they're totally functional.

07-19-2005, 05:13 PM	#8
discs of tron Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: western mass Posts: 162	but if you want to be reminded of the greatness that can be achieved with mos cams, watch any sergio leone western, any of the old disney nature doc-dramas (gentle ben, etc,) or, as everyone is quick to point out, el mariachi. plenty of others are out there. if your horror thing is light on dialogue (or you can shoot the reverse angle whenever anyone talks, like leone,) and most of the effects can be foley'd in (which for any horror flick should be true,) a hand-wound mos cam should be fine. and the bolex will probably outlive every dvx in existence.

07-19-2005, 06:00 PM	#9
Dyrseve989 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 431	As stated above - and from my own experience(and stubborness) NEVER FILM WITH A NON-SYNC SOUND CAMERA!!!!!!! - You will drive to yourself to the nut house after the first 100' of film -Matt-

07-19-2005, 06:01 PM	#10
Dyrseve989 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 431	^(correction) NEVER FILM A SOUND FILM WITH A NON-SYNC SOUND CAMERA!!!!!!! - (big difference)