AVCHD high bitrate tests- MUD FREE footage - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

jobless · 06-09-2010, 04:37 AM

______________UPDATE 13/06/2010_________________

See second post for FAQ for newbies and new database for settings:
If you have any questions of any kind feel free to PM me.

______________UPDATE 12/06/2010_________________

USEFUL SETTINGS AND EXPLANATIONS FOR AVCHD:

In Ptool there are 3 suggested settings A, B, and C
I should say that C settings are the famous D settings that you can find on various posts here.
Video buffer doesn't seem to have any effect, so you don't need to check this option.
Avg. bitrate for C settings is 44Mbps.

IMPORTANT:

As for 'Video Bitrate Adjustment Simplified' and 'Video Bitrate Adjustment' , you need to check just one of these. However 'Video Bitrate Adjustment Simplified' is not yet tested..

If you shoot in 720 60p mode, D settings probably won’t work with high detailed scenes and camera will interrupt recoding after few seconds. For 720 MODE use the following settings that will work without problems:

Video bitrate adjustment 38000000
Overall bitrate adjustment 40000000
Limiting bitrate adjustment 42000000

For these settings avg. bitrate in 1080 MODE is 34.4 Mbps and for 720 34.5 Mbps.
There are no problems with recording of any kind either with 1080 or 720.
No MUD with this setting also.
I should say that these are stable settings and I would recommend them for normal users that want to shoot with 1080 and 720.

For 720 MODE do not use shutter speed 50 or slower ( bitrate drops to 2MBps resulting in horrible picture).
USE ONLY 60 AND FASTER.

Here you can find some examples for these settings:
http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test6/1080samurai.MTS
http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test6/720samurai.MTS

ABOUT FPN and NOISE IN COLOR GRADIENTS:

-Fpn is not a codec problem and probably cannot be resolved...

- Noise in color gradients is still present (because in Low detail scenes such as walls, backdrops, etc, bitrate drops down). So for now this problem is not solved, infect IQ in static low detailed shots with enhanced codec is identical of IQ of original codec.

Tripod test:
http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test6/...1080normal.MTS
http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test6/.../720normal.MTS

http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test6/...-Dsettings.MTS
http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test6/...-Dsettings.MTS

Other examples:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/amiv1h
http://www.sendspace.com/file/af64gf
http://vimeo.com/12477730
http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test4.rar

jobless · 06-09-2010, 04:41 AM

FAQ for newbies and new database for settings:

1. imagebuff has created simple datebase of PTools patch settings using Google docs / forms.
When you have a set of patch settings worth sharing with the rest of the members simply go to:
http://bit.ly/PToolsForm
and quickly fill in the form listing your settings. You get to name them for easy reference in the forum threads.
To locate a specific named patch set or a user's settings simply go to the list at:
http://bit.ly/PToolsList

If everyone will start contributing their settings to this simple database I believe those that are tracking testing (tester13 and others) will be able to compare and contrast settings and results much easier. Regular GH1 enthusiasts like me will also have an up-to-date, complete, and easy reference for setting up PTool.

If anyone has any suggestions for changes to the form or anything else please feel free to contact me directly.

Thanks
Chris - imagebuff

2. When first time installing Ptool please visit
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=212664

3. To install Ptool go to:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=206788
and read carrefully first and second post.

4. When shooting with enhanced firmware your bitrate will be higher only in situations whit Hidetail or clips with lot of motion involved ( Wide angles, panning camera, fast shutter speed, footage with lot of trees and grass, etc). In Lowdetailed scene ( Shallow depth of field scenes, tripod footage, indoor shooting, etc) bitrate drops down and it's perfectly normal ( AVCHD is variable codec) so you'll probably get around 12-18 mbps. Knowing that we can assume that different settings will gave us different results based on scene in front of camera. For example, Shooting with 'C' settings will work fine, except you find your self doing Bungee jumping and want to shoot the fall with wide angle at shutter speed 200...

Ozpeter · 06-09-2010, 04:49 AM

Downloading now...

But is this a true solution - to get mud free results from the GH1 we have to use bitrates way above normal, or to put it another way, way higher than other devices use for equivalent quality? (Just asking, not knocking, this does seem like a breakthrough).

Ozpeter · 06-09-2010, 04:55 AM

Also... with these higher-than-intended bitrates (MJPEG or AVCHD) is there a possibly hidden overheat downside? Maybe the whole GH1 body isn't (or is??) getting hot, but perhaps certain components are being thrashed too hard and may fail prematurely? There has to be a catch!

Vitaliy Kiselev · 06-09-2010, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozpeter

Also... with these higher-than-intended bitrates (MJPEG or AVCHD) is there a possibly hidden overheat downside? Maybe the whole GH1 body isn't (or is??) getting hot, but perhaps certain components are being thrashed too hard and may fail prematurely? There has to be a catch!

No, it won't be hot.
Sensor is not affected.
And in reality most blocks in 1080p panning are almost all intraframe.
So you have just different levels of compression for same blocks.
But LSI load must be the same. Only transfer load on SD controller is higher, but it must not cause any serious heat.

Martti Ekstrand · 06-09-2010, 05:24 AM

Wow! Not only doesn't the encoding break badly in the pans, the near black areas looks quite a bit better as well when staying still and there's very little of the "half-seconds flutter" in lowlight areas.

The catch is simple: this is not for Panasonic's target consumer, a rich man going on vacation wanting to have both good stills and nice video in a simple fashion. With this kind of bitrate the SDHC card will fill up more quickly and one needs to be somewhat more careful in choosing what kind of card to buy. I can also imagine that Panasonic's monitor with built-in SDHD slots might have problems with straight-from-the-card playback.

Now for the ultimate bitrate test: THE FOLIAGE OF DEATH PAN!

spamrakuen · 06-09-2010, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martti Ekstrand

Now for the ultimate bitrate test: THE FOLIAGE OF DEATH PAN!

LOOOOOOOL

bumkicho · 06-09-2010, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jobless

I tried with this settings and it's working.
I record 4 minutes long clip ( I stopped the camera)
Video buffer 40.000.000
Video bitrate adjustment 40000000
Overall bitrate adjustment 46000000
Limiting bitrate adjustment 50000000

Overall bit rate : 34.8 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 46.0 Mbps

I tested tester13's B setting this morning and I was able to record and play back using class 4 card. With higher setting you have here, were you able to play it back on the camera? what card do you use?

Vitaliy Kiselev · 06-09-2010, 06:09 AM

It is not necessary to have such large difference between Overall and Video bitrates.
It looks like 2Mbit is enought, but more testing required.

jobless · 06-09-2010, 06:14 AM

New tests:
Video buffer 40.000.000
Video bitrate adjustment - c)40000000 d)50000000 e)60000000
Overall bitrate adjustment - c)46000000 d)56000000 e)66000000
Limiting bitrate adjustment - c)50000000 d)60000000 e)70000000
c) Gives you Overall bit rate : 34.2 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 46.0 Mbps
http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/Csettings.MTS
d) Gives you Overall bit rate : 37.4 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 56.0 Mbps
http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/Dsettings.MTS
e) Gives you Overall bit rate : 4 755 Kbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 66.0 Mbps
http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/Esettings.MTS

Unpatched Version:
http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/Unpatched.MTS

With E setting bitrate drops! I double checked all parameters and everything was ok...
Also I noted that on C and D first frame is with MUD, but others are not.. And, there is difference in sharpens between C,D and unpatched ..

06-09-2010, 04:37 AM	#1
jobless Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 107	AVCHD high bitrate tests- MUD FREE footage ______________UPDATE 13/06/2010_________________ See second post for FAQ for newbies and new database for settings: If you have any questions of any kind feel free to PM me. ______________UPDATE 12/06/2010_________________ USEFUL SETTINGS AND EXPLANATIONS FOR AVCHD: In Ptool there are 3 suggested settings A, B, and C I should say that C settings are the famous D settings that you can find on various posts here. Video buffer doesn't seem to have any effect, so you don't need to check this option. Avg. bitrate for C settings is 44Mbps. IMPORTANT: As for 'Video Bitrate Adjustment Simplified' and 'Video Bitrate Adjustment' , you need to check just one of these. However 'Video Bitrate Adjustment Simplified' is not yet tested.. If you shoot in 720 60p mode, D settings probably won’t work with high detailed scenes and camera will interrupt recoding after few seconds. For 720 MODE use the following settings that will work without problems: Video bitrate adjustment 38000000 Overall bitrate adjustment 40000000 Limiting bitrate adjustment 42000000 For these settings avg. bitrate in 1080 MODE is 34.4 Mbps and for 720 34.5 Mbps. There are no problems with recording of any kind either with 1080 or 720. No MUD with this setting also. I should say that these are stable settings and I would recommend them for normal users that want to shoot with 1080 and 720. For 720 MODE do not use shutter speed 50 or slower ( bitrate drops to 2MBps resulting in horrible picture). USE ONLY 60 AND FASTER. Here you can find some examples for these settings: http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test6/1080samurai.MTS http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test6/720samurai.MTS ABOUT FPN and NOISE IN COLOR GRADIENTS: -Fpn is not a codec problem and probably cannot be resolved... - Noise in color gradients is still present (because in Low detail scenes such as walls, backdrops, etc, bitrate drops down). So for now this problem is not solved, infect IQ in static low detailed shots with enhanced codec is identical of IQ of original codec. Tripod test: http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test6/...1080normal.MTS http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test6/.../720normal.MTS http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test6/...-Dsettings.MTS http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test6/...-Dsettings.MTS Other examples: http://www.sendspace.com/file/amiv1h http://www.sendspace.com/file/af64gf http://vimeo.com/12477730 http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test4.rar __________________ http://vimeo.com/nikolic http://www.youtube.com/nemanja77 Last edited by jobless; 06-13-2010 at 02:36 AM. Reason: removed all this "heil" crap

06-09-2010, 04:41 AM	#2
jobless Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 107	FAQ for newbies and new database for settings: 1. imagebuff has created simple datebase of PTools patch settings using Google docs / forms. When you have a set of patch settings worth sharing with the rest of the members simply go to: http://bit.ly/PToolsForm and quickly fill in the form listing your settings. You get to name them for easy reference in the forum threads. To locate a specific named patch set or a user's settings simply go to the list at: http://bit.ly/PToolsList If everyone will start contributing their settings to this simple database I believe those that are tracking testing (tester13 and others) will be able to compare and contrast settings and results much easier. Regular GH1 enthusiasts like me will also have an up-to-date, complete, and easy reference for setting up PTool. If anyone has any suggestions for changes to the form or anything else please feel free to contact me directly. Thanks Chris - imagebuff 2. When first time installing Ptool please visit http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=212664 3. To install Ptool go to: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=206788 and read carrefully first and second post. 4. When shooting with enhanced firmware your bitrate will be higher only in situations whit Hidetail or clips with lot of motion involved ( Wide angles, panning camera, fast shutter speed, footage with lot of trees and grass, etc). In Lowdetailed scene ( Shallow depth of field scenes, tripod footage, indoor shooting, etc) bitrate drops down and it's perfectly normal ( AVCHD is variable codec) so you'll probably get around 12-18 mbps. Knowing that we can assume that different settings will gave us different results based on scene in front of camera. For example, Shooting with 'C' settings will work fine, except you find your self doing Bungee jumping and want to shoot the fall with wide angle at shutter speed 200... __________________ http://vimeo.com/nikolic http://www.youtube.com/nemanja77 Last edited by jobless; 06-13-2010 at 02:48 AM.

06-09-2010, 05:24 AM	#6
Martti Ekstrand Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Deep, deep in PAL land. Posts: 1,406	Wow! Not only doesn't the encoding break badly in the pans, the near black areas looks quite a bit better as well when staying still and there's very little of the "half-seconds flutter" in lowlight areas. The catch is simple: this is not for Panasonic's target consumer, a rich man going on vacation wanting to have both good stills and nice video in a simple fashion. With this kind of bitrate the SDHC card will fill up more quickly and one needs to be somewhat more careful in choosing what kind of card to buy. I can also imagine that Panasonic's monitor with built-in SDHD slots might have problems with straight-from-the-card playback. Now for the ultimate bitrate test: THE FOLIAGE OF DEATH PAN! __________________ My GH1 shorts are here: http://vimeo.com/marttiekstrand/videos

06-09-2010, 06:14 AM	#10
jobless Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 107	New tests: Video buffer 40.000.000 Video bitrate adjustment - c)40000000 d)50000000 e)60000000 Overall bitrate adjustment - c)46000000 d)56000000 e)66000000 Limiting bitrate adjustment - c)50000000 d)60000000 e)70000000 c) Gives you Overall bit rate : 34.2 Mbps Maximum Overall bit rate : 46.0 Mbps http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/Csettings.MTS d) Gives you Overall bit rate : 37.4 Mbps Maximum Overall bit rate : 56.0 Mbps http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/Dsettings.MTS e) Gives you Overall bit rate : 4 755 Kbps Maximum Overall bit rate : 66.0 Mbps http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/Esettings.MTS Unpatched Version: http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/Unpatched.MTS With E setting bitrate drops! I double checked all parameters and everything was ok... Also I noted that on C and D first frame is with MUD, but others are not.. And, there is difference in sharpens between C,D and unpatched .. __________________ http://vimeo.com/nikolic http://www.youtube.com/nemanja77

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06-09-2010, 04:49 AM	#3
Ozpeter Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 628	Downloading now... But is this a true solution - to get mud free results from the GH1 we have to use bitrates way above normal, or to put it another way, way higher than other devices use for equivalent quality? (Just asking, not knocking, this does seem like a breakthrough).

06-09-2010, 04:55 AM	#4
Ozpeter Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 628	Also... with these higher-than-intended bitrates (MJPEG or AVCHD) is there a possibly hidden overheat downside? Maybe the whole GH1 body isn't (or is??) getting hot, but perhaps certain components are being thrashed too hard and may fail prematurely? There has to be a catch!

06-09-2010, 06:09 AM	#9
Vitaliy Kiselev Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,323	It is not necessary to have such large difference between Overall and Video bitrates. It looks like 2Mbit is enought, but more testing required.