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Vitaliy Kiselev · 06-08-2010, 11:24 PM

AVCHD mud explained

Look at this strange picture:

It shows block types and motion vectors for P frame.
Scene is specially very simple, overexposed and out of focus for easy viewing.
On simple scene and careful motion you have enough interframe blocks and some intraframe blocks (things with small divisions).
Lets look at high detail scene. Without motion, interframe blocks are able to maintain quality of I frame. But as soon as motion kicks in, you have almost only intraframe blocks.
As P frame size hits limitation, intraframe blocks compression became insane (3x-6x more size reduction). So, you have something like overcompressed I frame than P frame.

park25 · 06-09-2010, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanB

Ok, here is the first test for me:
Settings were changed for an attempt at AVHCD quality improvement

It's due to too high Video Bitrate Adjustment value.
More than 20xxxxxxx value will crash the camera.
My bitrates combination for AVCHD is 40xxxxxxx:20xxxxxxx:24xxxxxxx.
And if you are able to review the pictures, I mean to avoid freezing the body when touching the Play button, make sure the first shot is a picture, not an AVCHD movie.

Adventsam · 06-09-2010, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tester13

AVCHD mud explained
It shows block types and motion vectors for P frame.
...
As P frame size hits limitation, intraframe blocks compression became insane (3x-6x more size reduction). So, you have something like overcompressed I frame than P frame.

Dont Panasonic know what they are doing?

Vitaliy Kiselev · 06-09-2010, 02:14 AM

Mayor breakthrough coming. Stay tuned.

As for Panasonic. No, they don't know. How they can make P frame size larger than I frame and have worse quality? This is kind of the hint to that's coming.

Vitaliy Kiselev · 06-09-2010, 02:59 AM

PTool 3.35 released

Limiting bitrate patch added. Now you can adjust AVCHD bitrate (with use of other three patches that we have already).

Tested settings:

Code:

Video buffer                 - a) 33.500.000 b) 40.000.000
Video bitrate adjustment     - a) 22.000.000 b) 32.000.000
Overall bitrate adjustment   - a) 24.000.000 b) 35.000.000
Limiting bitrate adjustment  - a) 26.000.000 b) 40.000.000

a) Gives you 22Mbit bitrate with some spikes up to 24Mbit.
b) Gives you 32Mbit bitrate with some spikes up to 34Mbit.

For 720p60 actual bitrate can be slightly lower (I get 27Mbit at b) ).

Top bitrate and best settings will be found by testers later.
Possibility is it can be as high as MJPEG top bitrate for FullHD mode.

Q: Such high bitrate clips are playable on camera?
A: Yes, no problems during my limited testing. All plays fine.

Jack Daniel Stanley · 06-09-2010, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tester13

PTool 3.35 released

Limiting bitrate patch added. Now you can adjust AVCHD bitrate (with use of other three patches that we have already).

whoa ...

Adventsam · 06-09-2010, 03:30 AM

My battery is on charge, have to give this one a go. Tester13 you are incredibe if you solve this, thank you for keeping the faith with avc.

Paul Shields · 06-09-2010, 03:55 AM

Adjustable bitrate AVCHD? Playback in camera? This is awesome news. Wish I was at home rather than at work so I could try this right now.

I hope everyone who is so far benefiting from these updates is also donating

.

jobless · 06-09-2010, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tester13

PTool 3.35 released

Limiting bitrate patch added. Now you can adjust AVCHD bitrate (with use of other three patches that we have already).

Tested settings:

Code:

Video buffer                 - a) 33.500.000 b) 40.000.000
Video bitrate adjustment     - a) 22.000.000 b) 32.000.000
Overall bitrate adjustment   - a) 24.000.000 b) 35.000.000
Limiting bitrate adjustment  - a) 26.000.000 b) 40.000.000

a) Gives you 22Mbit bitrate with some spikes up to 24Mbit.
b) Gives you 32Mbit bitrate with some spikes up to 34Mbit.

For 720p60 actual bitrate can be slightly lower (I get 27Mbit at b) ).

Top bitrate and best settings will be found by testers later.
Possibility is it can be as high as MJPEG top bitrate for FullHD mode.

Q: Such high bitrate clips are playable on camera?
A: Yes, no problems during my limited testing. All plays fine.

I confirm. MUD free image with b settings !!!
I'll upload the test footage in a moment...

update:
download link:
http://www.nikolicnemanja.com/test4.rar
I started panning after 5 second of the footage...

kiguar · 06-09-2010, 04:34 AM

obviously a great progress is made.
are there any restrictions? can it be used for let say production?

06-09-2010, 02:59 AM	#2245
Vitaliy Kiselev Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,324	PTool 3.35 released Limiting bitrate patch added. Now you can adjust AVCHD bitrate (with use of other three patches that we have already). Tested settings: Code: Video buffer - a) 33.500.000 b) 40.000.000 Video bitrate adjustment - a) 22.000.000 b) 32.000.000 Overall bitrate adjustment - a) 24.000.000 b) 35.000.000 Limiting bitrate adjustment - a) 26.000.000 b) 40.000.000 a) Gives you 22Mbit bitrate with some spikes up to 24Mbit. b) Gives you 32Mbit bitrate with some spikes up to 34Mbit. For 720p60 actual bitrate can be slightly lower (I get 27Mbit at b) ). Top bitrate and best settings will be found by testers later. Possibility is it can be as high as MJPEG top bitrate for FullHD mode. Q: Such high bitrate clips are playable on camera? A: Yes, no problems during my limited testing. All plays fine.

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06-08-2010, 11:24 PM	#2241
Vitaliy Kiselev Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,324	AVCHD mud explained Look at this strange picture: It shows block types and motion vectors for P frame. Scene is specially very simple, overexposed and out of focus for easy viewing. On simple scene and careful motion you have enough interframe blocks and some intraframe blocks (things with small divisions). Lets look at high detail scene. Without motion, interframe blocks are able to maintain quality of I frame. But as soon as motion kicks in, you have almost only intraframe blocks. As P frame size hits limitation, intraframe blocks compression became insane (3x-6x more size reduction). So, you have something like overcompressed I frame than P frame.

06-09-2010, 02:14 AM	#2244
Vitaliy Kiselev Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,324	Mayor breakthrough coming. Stay tuned. As for Panasonic. No, they don't know. How they can make P frame size larger than I frame and have worse quality? This is kind of the hint to that's coming.

06-09-2010, 03:30 AM	#2247
Adventsam Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 178	My battery is on charge, have to give this one a go. Tester13 you are incredibe if you solve this, thank you for keeping the faith with avc.

06-09-2010, 03:55 AM	#2248
Paul Shields Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 30	Adjustable bitrate AVCHD? Playback in camera? This is awesome news. Wish I was at home rather than at work so I could try this right now. I hope everyone who is so far benefiting from these updates is also donating .

06-09-2010, 04:34 AM	#2250
kiguar Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 17	obviously a great progress is made. are there any restrictions? can it be used for let say production?