XHA1 & Premiere quality issues. NEED HELP!

[RPK]

Hi,

I have been struggling getting high quality rendering from Adobe Premiere CS3 and CS4 on both PC and OSX. I've read a gazillion threads on various workflows and have tried out a lot.

Here are sample areas from two different stills at 100% zoom. The stills are each shown as exported from Final Cut Pro in comparison to the lower quality with artifacts when exported from Premiere CS4. Horizontal pixelation is clearly visible around hand area and in the red areas of the microphone.

FCP export:


CS4 export:


FCP export:


CS4 export:


I'm capturing 24f footage either via XHA1 or HV20 through firewire.
Among the methods I tried are direct capture to Premiere with included presets (HDV 24p) or the old Canon 24f Premiere presets. I also tried HDVSplit. Captured with the latter the footage looks fine when viewing in Windows Media Player, but I get the same artifacts once the footage is in Premiere. Also tried capturing in CS3 on OSX with the same problems.

I captured the same footage in FCP and the results look much better! However, I much (MUCH) prefer Premiere on PC over FCP on Mac, but that's enough headache for another thread.

I would be very glad for any help with getting the quality right with Premiere CS4!

Thanks,
RPK

[strivedi]

Are you getting these issues only when you export stills? Or do you see the same issues in the source monitor when playing video?

I have seen quality degradation when exporting stills from Premier Pro. It is not as good as the HD video footage and certainly not as good as a still camera.


Looks like the tabla footage is in low light .

What preset are you using on the camera? That could make a difference in the source footage.

[PDR]

I also tried HDVSplit. Captured with the latter the footage looks fine when viewing in Windows Media Player, but I get the same artifacts once the footage is in Premiere.

If the artifacts appear when importing into premiere, putting footage on a timeline (i.e. visible in the preview even before exporting or rendering), it's likely a mismatched interpretation of the footage and sequence settings (e.g. pulldown not removed correctly)

If the preview is fine (on high quality settings), and only the export is lower quality, you have to provide more information on your export settings used

[KeeganFlynn]

I'm with PDR, are you having problems when exporting? or on capture?

Getting a master quality file out of FCP is a breeze, but to do the same out of Premiere can be a bit of a pain if you're editing in native HDV.

[RPK]

Thanks for the replies! I really appreciate your help!

I'm with PDR, are you having problems when exporting? or on capture?

The artifacts appear as soon as the footage is inside Premiere, visible in the Program Monitor and when viewing on 'external hardware' (might not use accurate Adobe lingo here.) This is before exporting but after capture in HDVSplit! And it's visible in both stills and video rendered in various formats and quality settings.

When using the 'external hardware' option with a Cinema Display (1920x1200) while editing the footage looks like in the examples. However, to my surprise, the footage looks even worse when viewed in the Program Monitor, even with settings at 'high' and zoom at 100%. In the Program Monitor I get artifacts as if the zoom factor isn't at 100%. In FCP the preview monitor with high quality setting and at 100% zoom shows footage just like exported video/stills with high quality settings.

Looks like the tabla footage is in low light .

What preset are you using on the camera? That could make a difference in the source footage.

Yes, the tabla sample is from low light footage, but the artifacts are the same on all kinds of footage.

I'm using a tweaked preset, but the footage looks as it should in FCP and before importing into Premiere, so the preset shouldn't have anything to do with it.

If the artifacts appear when importing into premiere, putting footage on a timeline (i.e. visible in the preview even before exporting or rendering), it's likely a mismatched interpretation of the footage and sequence settings (e.g. pulldown not removed correctly)

I think you are probably right about an error in the footage interpretation. I will take a look at the settings in Premiere and will report back here. However, since I'm working with 24p footage from the XHA1 there shouldn't be any pulldown issues, right?

Thanks again for your help!

RPK

[RPK]

it's likely a mismatched interpretation of the footage and sequence settings

OK, here is what Premiere says in the 'Interpret Footage' dialog with footage captured directly in Premiere (not HDVSplit):

- Frame Rate: 23.9760
- Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.333
- Field Order: No Fields (Progressive Scan)
- Nothing checked in Alpha Channel.


The sequence settings are:

-HDV 1080p, 23.9760
- 1440x1080, 1.333
- No Fields
- 24fps Timecode
- Preview file format: I-Frame only MPEG
- Unchecked: Maximum Bit Depth & Maximum Render Quality.


Looks like everything matches. Placing check marks in Maximum Bit Depth and Maximum Render Quality didn't improve the artifacts.

RPK

[PDR]

Do you have the lastest updates for CS4? I think 4.1 added proper pulldown removal for some cameras

Is there a red render bar when you drop the footage onto timeline (if there is , this suggests some mismatch)

However, since I'm working with 24p footage from the XHA1 there shouldn't be any pulldown issues, right?

I don't have this particular camera, but does it shoot 24psf or 24pA ? It's normal to see the artifacts, until pulldown removal or the footage is interpreted correctly. The 24p native footage is packaged in a 60i stream (if it was 24pN, it would be native)

Were there any frame drops during capture? => can lead to cadence swap , you would have to re-capture

Your sequence settings appear correct to me

[RPK]

Do you have the lastest updates for CS4? I think 4.1 added proper pulldown removal for some cameras

Yes, I'm running 4.1.

Is there a red render bar when you drop the footage onto timeline (if there is , this suggests some mismatch)

No, no rendering necessary. No colored bar at all.

It's normal to see the artifacts, until pulldown removal or the footage is interpreted correctly.

I searched for pulldown removal issues in CS4 and found this thread on the Adobe forums: http://forums.adobe.com/message/1946437

However, my 'Interpret Footage' settings are correct and CS3 never displayed or rendered my footage from the XHA1 any better than CS4. Clips are also correctly identified by CS4 as having a 23.976 frame rate.

I'm wondering if this is really a pulldown removal issue.

Windows Media Player displays the captured clips in perfect quality

RPK

[PDR]

Originally Posted by RPK

Windows Media Player displays the captured clips in perfect quality

This doesn't provide much information, because WMP relies on system installed directshow codecs. So the specific splitter and directshow decoder may or may not be post-processing it in the directshow chain. This will vary between systems.

To me, this is highly suspicious of a pulldown removal issue. Many Canon cameras have issues with the 24p in 60i format (24psf). The combing pattern in your screenshots looks a lot like it. The treatment for 24pA is different.

Footage from other Canon HDV cameras exibit this same behaviour. There are dozens of theads on this at the HV20 forums, including workarounds with avisynth to remove pulldown.

If you can't figure it out, if you upload a sample to a free hosting site (e.g. mediafire.com), I can have a look at the footage , and maybe suggest some options

You can check the HV20 forums too, I think there are a few with your camera there

EDIT: not sure if this will work but here is a preset which may interpret it correctly
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloa...jsp?ftpID=3408

[RPK]

Hi PDR,

Thanks for the offer! I just sent you a PM with the location of an uploaded file.

EDIT: not sure if this will work but here is a preset which may interpret it correctly

I tried these presets a while ago and they didn't fix the issues.


RPK