Clip instances

[Malcolm Wright]

Hi all,

I've started into my first real editing project with Edius, and I'll be starting a few threads over the next week or so.

This one concerns how Edius instances clips in the bin.
We can import a clip to the bin, then copy that clip and change the ins and outs of it leaving us with two clips from the same file on disk, with different in and out properties.
This type of instancing is great, but it is limited in its implementation in a strange way: I have found it is impossible for the two instances of the clip to have differing aspect ratio settings (under clip properties dialogue).
I have a large .avi on disk which contains both 4:3 and 16:9 footage. The client handed over the footage in this form, and the easiest way for me to edit from it would be to have Edius have one instance of the clip seen as 4:3, and another instance seen as 16:9.

As things stand, I have to copy the large file so that it exists on disk twice (huge waste of space), and import both identical clips, for Edius to allow me to give them different aspect ratio settings.

There may be a very good reason for this... What is it?

Thanks,
M

[Ted Ramasola]

its even strange that you can delete the avi in the bin yet the avi is still in the timeline.

[Malcolm Wright]

^ Yes, that had me scratching my head too... It is counter intuitive, but I can live with it...

If there is no good reason for limiting what attributes of the clips can be instanced, I hope they allow fuller instancing in the next revision. As far as I understand it, pixel aspect ratio is an attribute that Edius could instance...
I feel a bit stupid having two identical copies of this 3gb clib on my drive just because of this limitation.
The alternative for me would be to edit the portions into separate clips so that one contains the 4:3 footage and the other the 16:9... its annoying to have to do that though...

M.

[alpi69]

I think it is a feature that it stays in the timeline when you delete an avi in the bin.
Edius treats bins and timelines separately. So if you delete a clip in one it stays in the other. You probably put it in the timeline for a reason. If you were in roipple mode and deleted it - should it vanish or should it ripple the whole timeline?? I think by leaving the clip it leaves these decisions to the editor and not the software.
I use Avid Liquid and it also does this: there is the media, maybe a proxy, the clip in the bin and instances of the clip in timelines/sequences. Also in Liquid when you delete a clip it asks: clip with or without imported media. and it always leaves the clip in the timeline. And that´s how it should be on a good software IMO. So Edius does it right.

Now to the 4:3 - 16:9 clip. I am no DV-engineer, but I guess the avi header will read the first frame and then apply the aspect to the file. It was a mistake to mix the aspect in one file. If I were you I would select the 4:3 portion and make a new file out of it (it is a lossless copy, so no drawback there). Then do the same with the 16:9 portion. Now you have two files which will together use the exact same space as the single mixed file. then decide on your output aspect in the timeline and the "wrong" aspect will be converted on the fly. takes a few minutes you could have saved if this would have been originally.

[Malcolm Wright]

Hey alpi,

Of course it was a mistake for the footage to be mixed in one file, but I have to deal with what is given to me.
Of course I could render out two files so I have the two aspects separated: it just seems like I shouldn't have to do this since Edius seems to instance clips. I see no reason why it wouldn't be able to instance the aspect ratio attribute also...

No biggy. I just am disappointed when I see a paradigm that is not fully exploited. Like the keyframing paradigm, it seems as if the developers stopped half way through implementing a good idea.

M.

[bhiga]

Actually the AVI headers generally don't store aspect ratio info at all. Most codecs assume square pixels. So it ends up being the player's responsibility.

The aspect ratio of a file determines how all of its pixels are shaped, so it's a bit difficult to handle one frame of a file one way, then the next differently. From a decoding perspective it gets messy.

"Clip" aspect ratios are handled in the Layout tool of the clip, which is applied after the source file is initially decompressed and adjusted for its aspect.

The easiest way to handle this would be to simply make a physical copy of the clip - in the Bin you can Convert|File to make an HQ version.

It'll also help a lot later on, since most things don't handle mixed formats in the same file well.

Brandon

[Malcolm Wright]

Actually the AVI headers generally don't store aspect ratio info at all. Most codecs assume square pixels. So it ends up being the player's responsibility.

The aspect ratio of a file determines how all of its pixels are shaped, so it's a bit difficult to handle one frame of a file one way, then the next differently. From a decoding perspective it gets messy.

Understood.

"Clip" aspect ratios are handled in the Layout tool of the clip, which is applied after the source file is initially decompressed and adjusted for its aspect.

So my suggestion would be for Edius to treat the adjusting for aspect as an instanced attribute, so that the same physical clip on drive can be adjusted differently in the different reference clips in the bin.
Once you unleash the power of instancing, why not spread it as far as possible?

The easiest way to handle this would be to simply make a physical copy of the clip - in the Bin you can Convert|File to make an HQ version.

It'll also help a lot later on, since most things don't handle mixed formats in the same file well.

Brandon

I ended up making a second copy on disk of the clip. It just seemed like a big waste of disk space for something that is not hard coded into the file, and which Edius could allow me to apply on a reference clip by reference clip basis.

Thanks though

M.

[bhiga]

So my suggestion would be for Edius to treat the adjusting for aspect as an instanced attribute, so that the same physical clip on drive can be adjusted differently in the different reference clips in the bin.
Once you unleash the power of instancing, why not spread it as far as possible?

Good suggestion. I'm lobbying for all the clip "properties" to be more like filters, so they can be applied to other clips an existing independently on each clip.