Mic for "noisy" concerts

[Peppe]

I couldn´t really find a topic about this, so sorry if this has been posted before.

I often shoot punk/hc/grindcore gigs and just with the builtin stereomicrophone of a DVX100A.
Obviously the sound get clipped and distorted, and it´s really hard to finetune the levels on the camera I think. I need to have it really low and at a certain point the levels go to almost zero, if you understand what I mean.
I don´t have much money to spend on a mic but would like to hear your opinions about microphones (even expensive ones) in noisy situations.

[ullanta]

If you have to set the levels low, set 'em low, it's better than distortion. Remember that no bars on the camera meters is not "nothing" - the meters only show the top part of the range. If you have a lot of dynamic variation, it may sometimes go to what looks like "nothing".

If there really is such a tremendous dynamic range in what you're recording, than you may need something like an outboard compressor to tame the levels.

Mostly, you need some REALLY GOOD isolating headphones (I'd recommend the HN-7506) so you can HEAR what's going on, which is much more important than looking at meters.

I'm not saying that better mics won't improve your sound... but they won't likely address the dynamic range issues you're describing.

[Peppe]

Thanx for the fast reply... I might consider some good headphones. The money is always an issue... I just shoot for nonprofit as the bands usually plays for food and beer.
Here you can see an example of a band called Totalt Jävla Mörker (Totally poo pooing Darkness) from Sweden...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uzDYtkdOBo

[timapter]

whats happening if the level dials are pretty much at zero and you're still getting clips is that the mic itself is reaching its distortion point (far as I know) - the common remedy is to use an attenuation pad (I believe there is one in the menus of the DVX? Maybe not, I havent used a DVX in a while - there is DEFINATELY one in the Sony Z1), this reduces the sensitivity of the mic and gives you a more workable gain structure.

[Spartacus]

The cheapest way would be to ask the soundguy at the show if he has a spare dynamic mic and a stand, put that next to you facing the stage and dial it in...
If you want to buy a mic get a sth cheap, DIY/Punk/Whatevercore shows usually have a bad or mediocre sound and you can just record whats there...
It´s really only about getting a dynamic mic that can handle the volume or soundpressure (is it called that way in english?) and you will be fine...

[Peppe]

all for your answers...

If you want to buy a mic get a sth cheap, DIY/Punk/Whatevercore shows usually have a bad or mediocre sound and you can just record whats there...

This was exactly what i was thinkng, but is it a good idea to buy a new "s*%tty" mic or am I good with the builtin mic of the DVX100A

the common remedy is to use an attenuation pad

I will need to check this, I´m quite new to the camera

[timapter]

A more pro solution:

Take a mono feed from the engineer doing the sound. If you cant be wired, send this via a wireless link using the sennheiser G2 system (at least). AND rig a room mic somewhere - maybe a condenser with attenuation switching, but some large diaphragm dynamics could the job as well if not better in high SPL environments. If this mic cannot be wired, run wireless using a plug on type transmitter (G2 minimum, again) - you'll need the 500 series to supply phantom to the mic if you go with a condenser.

If you arent keen on a fixed position room mic, then an on camera mic (again, with attenuation, or a dynamic mic) can be a second option.

These idea's will allow you to mix dry house sound with live environment sound in post.

[Spartacus]

:
This was exactly what i was thinkng, but is it a good idea to buy a new "shi*ty" mic or am I good with the builtin mic of the DVX100A

As said: the sound on hardcore shows usually ain´t that good especially on grindcore ore crust shows.
Of course you can buy a high end mic for recording - but it will only record the sound you´ll get from the PA.
So I don´t think you´ll hear the difference between a 30€ mic and a 300€ mic under these special circumstances.
I would rather buy different mics for different situations, so you could buy a cheaper mic for the HC gigs and a decent mic for interviews or as a on-camera shotgun mic...

Here is a suggestion for the start:
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw3_artikel-173386.html

[Peppe]

Thanx again for all your answers... I think I get the idea.
I was just laughing when reading about sound engineers, no offend to you timapter, but they are usually so f***ing drunk so there´s no use to talk to them... hehe.

When there are better bands and especially more professional bands I will for sure talk to the sound guys. Not often there are "pro" bands here though at the place where I do shoot.

[newtodvx100a]

I shoot church services and can't get a handle on distortion when the sound goes up too high, I adjust then don't you know, Things go to quiet and I am set too low. I wan't good sound all around.