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    Visual Sensor Format Comparisons
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    I made this simple graphic to compare visually the size and the area of each format.
    The external light grey outline is the full original 35mm still frame while the next shaded is a 16:9 vertically cropped version.
    The cine formats that RED supports are all almost 16:9 but I decided to crop slightly the vertical dimensions, just a little bit, to make them exactly 16:9.

    By comparing all formats in 16:9 (which probably will be the aspect ratio of choice), it’s easy to convert between their perceived focal lengths taking into account only the horizontal dimensions. For convenience, I list bellow each ratio of horizontal dimensions between the 35mm photo and the cine formats.
    _________________________________________________
    Case #1:
    To calculate the increased (apparent) focal length of a known 35mm photo lens mounted on RED that can provide the same angle of view with another 35mm photo lens mounted on a 35mm still camera (in other words 35mm equivalent), just multiply its focal length with the ratio of the desired format.

    For example a 14mm 35 photo lens intended for S35 (full frame) use, will be: 14 x 1.47541 = 20.6mm. This means that its angle of view will be equivalent to a 20.6mm lens on a 35mm still camera.

    Case #2:
    To calculate the equivalent focal length of another format lens that will provide the same angle of view as a known 35mm photo lens mounted on RED, just divide the focal length of the 35mm photo lens with the ratio of the desired format.

    For example a 14mm 35 photo lens intended for S35 (full frame) use, will be: 14 / 1.47541 = 9.5mm. This means that the 14mm lens’ angle of view will be equivalent to a 9.5mm S35 lens.

    Case #3:
    To find out what focal length should have a 35mm still lens to match the angle of view of your cine lens, just multiply the focal length of your cine lens with the corresponding ratio.

    Ratio____Format____

    1.47541---S35 cine (full frame)
    1.62162---35mm cine
    3.24324---S16mm cine
    3.46154---2/3” B4

    _________________________________________________

    Some statistics:



    The 1080p output when using an expensive S16 cine lens of a resolving power (definition) of say 100, I estimate that it will be equal or worse than a good photo 35mm lens (or a S35) providing a resolving power of about 80 on S35 frame.

    I think this is true because the definition that a single Bayer chip like RED can provide is about 70% of each format’s resolution. So the down-converted output from S35 frame will be limited mostly from the lens definition while the output from S16 frame will be limited mostly from the chips reduced "real" definition.
    Now if you choose 2K instead of 1080 then the difference will be greater (about 30% instead of 20%).

    This is why I hope that a good 35mm photo lens or a not so expensive S35 will provide most probably similar or better results in 2k or 1080 than an insanely expensive and heavier smaller format cine lens. Of course I speak only for image quality, not handling, although the 35mm photo will be definitely lighter and there are solutions for follow focus etc.
    Last edited by Proteus; 07-19-2006 at 04:12 AM.


     

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    #2
    Senior Member pretopost's Avatar
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    I'm impressed...

    I just can't wait to film with it.
    Daniel Gourley
    PreToPost Media Solutions
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    daniel@pretopost.com

    HVX Rental in Phoenix, AZ - 1 HVX, 5x4GB P2 Cards- $400 per day. With experienced operator $1000 per day. Send me an email if interested.

    VerticalBlu Film Company
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    By joining together our skills, resources and efforts we can create movies that speak to our souls, our lives our communities.


     

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    A preview of the “Mysterium” sensor (almost)!
    #3
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    This is a Bayer type sensor at almost the same dimensions as the RED‘s Mysterium.
    The Mysterium’s capture area is 24.4 x 13.7mm while this sensor’s dimensions are about 24 x 16mm. It’s the Nikon DX format used in DSLR (still) cameras, although it seems that the actual size (internal darker area) is larger than the capture size (23.7 x 15.6) reported by Nikon.


    EDIT:
    WARNING: Soon after this post, I realized that if you stare at this alternating image for too long, you might fall asleep, or worse, ...hypnotized! Then, only the ...RED team can wake you up!

    EDIT #2:
    I corrected a typo, instead of writing 13.7 as the vertical dimension (which I referred correctly in my first post) I wrote here 17. Sorry if I gave wrong impressions.
    Last edited by Proteus; 07-26-2006 at 02:53 PM.


     

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    #4
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    QUOTE:WARNING: Soon after this post, I realized that if you stare at this alternating image for too long, you might fall asleep, or worse, ...hypnotized! Then, only the RED team can wake you up!
    NO NO PROTEUS THAT ONLY WORKS WITH THE RED SENSOR


     

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    #5
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    proteus.. i'm delighted.. so much appreciated..


     

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    #6
    Cross-Examiner Emanuel's Avatar
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    W O W
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    #7
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    it would be interesting (sorry my ignorance..) to have also the 35mm & S35 (with several windows right?) non-still comparision..

    anyone?


     

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    #8
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    Here is a link that might be useful to go with the excellent work already done by Proteus.

    http://www.fxguide.com/article347.html

    Michael


     

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    #9
    Red Team Graeme_Nattress's Avatar
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    70% is a minimum extraction value for bayer. Usually you can get a fair bit more.

    Graeme
    www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP
    www.red.com - RED - 4k Digital Cinema Camera


     

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    #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress
    70% is a minimum extraction value for bayer. Usually you can get a fair bit more.

    Graeme
    Graeme, what would be a good average estimation for RED demosaic, 80% of resolution maybe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Filmmaker1977
    it would be interesting (sorry my ignorance..) to have also the 35mm & S35 (with several windows right?) non-still comparision..

    anyone?
    Filmmaker1977, I’m not sure I understand what you mean, can you be more specific?


     

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