Potential Job - Need advice

[Alex DePew]

I have a potential job and I'm trying to figure out the requirements in terms of time and equipment, whether I will need an aditional person to help or not and how much to charge once I have this all roughed out.

The gig is for 8 shooting days of up to 7 hours. A Polish fencing master is coming to NY to teach other fencing instructors how to instruct their students in fencing. The course will be part lecture, part demonstration and part workshop (they break into groups and work on things).

The owner of the fencing studio has been given the rights by the Polish master to produce a DVD or a DVD set (more likely a set since there will be so much material. I'm pretty sure it's only a verbal agreement, I'd make sure to get it on paper before I film. I know the owner through a friend of mine who I've known since jr. high. I've hung out with him a few times, playing pool and such. He is an honest guy. But I don't think he understands the work that would go into producing such a DVD, so he may not be willing to spend a a lot. I'm not sure what he expects in terms of costs and rewards, that's why I need to get more info so I can give him an breakdown and itemize how long things will take and either a fair rate or a good deal for the whole thing. I also need to know how much he could charge and how many units he might sell.

In order to help me secure the job, I shot a DVD for the club of a kids tournament for free. Both he and the kids were impressed.

So enough of the long windedness. I'll get to the point.

What I have and don't have
I have a DVX100b, a bogen tripod, a Rode NT-G2 shottie and a boom pole. I don't have a laptop. I'm operating on a new PC with the latest Adobe Production bundle. I don't have much hard drive space left. I don't have any lighting equipment, I don't have a wireless lav yet, I don't have a monitor.

What I figure I need
I figure I'll need to purchase a wireless lav. (I'll be getting tons of use out of it anyway). I'll also need a second camera to have something to cut between, since one camera would look very amatuerish. I may also get an oktava. I may need a second person (hopefully not a third) to help out with either camera or booming.

What to charge
Since I am still new and want to foster a solid working relationship with his club, I don't want to overcharge. Before I realized I should probably have a second cam I figured I would quote him $250/day for shooting. and $1,500.00 flat for the editing and DVD creation. This turns out to be $3,500.00 before secon cam consideration. I also need to figure out how many DVD's would be produced and how many he could sell so that he would make money on them.

Questions
Should I get a second cam and up the shooting rate to $350 and pay the second cam $100/day upping the total cost to $4,300.00? Or should I go with one cam? Also do you feel $3,500.00 is low/fair/too high? I think he may balk at much more than that. My "feeling" (not at all based in reality) is that were he to try and get it done himself would cost WAY more.
Is there equipment I would need to make this look good besides what I mentioned?
Are there any standard pratices for shooting this type of set up?
Is there anyone who has shot something like this who could advise me in what to do or look out for.

All help is GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks,
Alex

[Brandon Rice]

Going single cam wouldn't be too hard. Especially if its like a training DVD set, you can have multiple angles with multiple takes. Get the lav, that'll be worth your expense. For lighting I'd see if you have some natural to work with, or pick up some Home Depot lights and you can light simple stuff with those.

[J Michael]

The end product is something they will be able to resell for years. It's worth it to them to do it right. Sounds like an opportunity to do some really cool stuff such as slow motion of intricate technique by the master.

Wax on, wax off.

[Joe Kras]

I'm going to disagree a little with "Brice-aroni" (sorry, I really liked that one).

I think the Bricemaster is right that you can easily shoot an instructional video with one cam. But my take is that this guy is coming to town to give a seminar, and NOT primarily to make an instructional video. He is not going to be receptive to stopping and going back and doing the exact same thing over again after you reposition your cam. So I would go with a second cam. Have the second film the wide shot, and you get all the close ups.

As to the cost, I think you're way underestimating it. Where do you get a shooter with a DVX with any kind of experience in NY for $100/day? I don't know your market, but I would think you'd have to go at least twice that to get someone.

Also, as this is not just a documentation of the seminar but an instructional video, the guy you're dealing with has to realize that he needs to commit to time spent with you going over footage and deciding what to include and what not to. Unless you're well versed in fencing, you'll need his eye to tell you what sets are most important to include, in what order they should be run, and what takes are not quite up to snuff and should be cut. Depending on the quality of audio you're able to capture, you may also need this guy to write or do VO explanations.

You may also want to get some interviews with the master to include on the DVD. These can cover things like the history of his particular style, personal reminiscences of past masters he has worked with, comments on techniques, etc. These could be shot after the seminar each day, and intercut throughout the video.

In other words, editing a good instructional video will take more time than doing one of the competition, and I would consider that when pricing my time.

Oh, yeah. I would definitely get the wireless lav.

Good luck!

[Alex DePew]

Thanks guys.

My friend the fencing coach will be able to look over the footage with me and let me know what is good from what is not so good. He will also help me to interpret the Fencing master's accent. He trained with him for several years and told me that he speaks perfect English but with a heavy accent.

As to the $100.00/day, I'm not sure I CAN get a guy with a cam for that low. I was hoping that the total amount would look good. If I could get it up to $150 it would be $1,200.00.

And I will definitely get a lav.

As to the lighting, they have really nice light during the day at one end of the studio. But there is a huge falloff within the studio from one end to the other. So I have to figure out how to balance the image since there will be both daylight and flourescent.

I will definitely have time with him before and/or after to get interviews. But the primary purpose is to lecture, not create this DVD set. I will make sure some of the interviews take place in other locations to give the viewer something else to look at.

So from what I've mentioned, how would you work out the pricing? If you need more info I'll be happy to provide it, but I think that is the meat of it. I wish I knew that there was a hungry market out there for the DVDs. That would make selling my service much easier. I have to find out if there is a desire and get some data. I get the impression if I settle on a number that he feels is too high he will say it is not worth it and scrap the plan. I also don't want to slap something together just to keep it under a low budget. Argghhh!

[SilverWolf]

Now I have a question. you say it's for 8 shooting days of up to 7 hours. Is that 7 hours total for the 8 shooting days or 7 hours a day ?

If it's 7 hours a day you are going to need about 3 300gb hd's to hold that footage per camera ( give or take a hard drive )
Now if it's just 7 hours then I would just buy one extra 300GB HD for $100. I would also definitely try and get a second camera because it will make your
life much easier in editing. If you are using Premiere 2.0 you can set it up for multi camera editing.

So right now we are at Extra hd's , Second Cam with Operator. Next I would get someone to run sound unless you use wireless lav's but the boom pole will sound better
In regards to what to charge the second cam op. I would try and go for $200/day at the least because that's how much it cost to rent the camera alone.
Just word it to your client that it's a camera rental and the op is doing you a favor and doing it for free.

Now you're still left without a light kit which I can't help you on because i don't know what resources are available to you. Also another thing you could do
is charge lower but have him sign an agreement that you get to do the next 2 or 3 dvd's at full price

[JY_Blue]

it is a great foot in the door that you did the piece on the kids tournament, but to produce a marketable instruction video is a much larger undertaking.

i think you have to ask 2 questions before proceding. do you know what you want and are you correctly managing your client's expectations. I am all for jumping in and doing things and feel strongly that it is the best learning environment. but you may want to step back and:

- do a detailed breakdown of what is going to go on screen for the piece
- analize what it would take to get it
- and present a realistic bid to your potential client

i would decide what you want to go on screen by doing an outline/paper cut of what you want to get. talk to your friend, figure out what he wants to get across in his video, and and offer him options. i wouldn't just shoot for all the days. maybe the fencing master could designate 1-2 days where he demonstrates a couple of lesson plans and is ready to do multiple takes. then break out a schedule and go over it with him.

i would think $5-10k is cheap for something that he can sell. that may sound expensive, but he woun't get a better bid from a professional. if that cost is beyond his expectations, maybe you can discuss a different end result, like that you will produce a couple of segments for him. you can shoot for a day with 2 cameras. don't have to buy a second camera, just rent or hire one and put your resources elsewhere. also, i would recommend hiring someone in a higher price bracket, who's experience really brings something to the table that you can learn from. is there someone locally that you can talk to for guidance and assistance.

sounds like a great opportunity, just be aware that as described, this doesn't sound like a small task.

good luck.