HD100 and frame rates

[filmfactory]

Newbie on board

I am very new to this and am sorry for such basic questions.

I am shooting in HDV-HD24P format on the HD-100. My first question is what is the actual frame rate? Is it 24 or 23.98? And it this something you can set to be different? What is the difference? Is 23.98 drop frame? And lastly what is the best to use (if there is even a choice with the HD-100).

Then I am using Lumiere beta 1.6b2 to capture as FCP does not yet support 24p. It creates an m2t file. I do not know how to check the m2t file to see what the frame rate is, but after Demultiplexing the file the first resulting m2v file is 23.98.

But then a did the capture and demux a second time (just really for practice) and the frame rate for the m2v file was 23.50 (As reported by Quicktime Pro->View->Show Movie Info). Check Lumiere and there really is no preference for this.

And third time, it was 23.50.

I really appreciate any advice.

[dashwood]

24P is always actually 23.98fps. The short explanation is that since NTSC is 29.97fps (regardless of NDF or DF TC,) the frame rate of 23.98 must be used to maintain sync in a pulldown pattern. This is also true when you do a telecine transfer of film to NTSC video.
720P60 is actually 59.94fps, so the same rule applies. It all goes back to NTSC's actual frame rate..
However, in PAL land, 25P is actually 25fps, and 50P is 50fps. Nice even numbers.

The only time you would need to run a "true" 24P is if you were editing and mixing for a film release.
Final Cut Pro is capable of conforming all of your files to true 24fps via Cinema Tools, and cutting is 24fps sequences, but don't bother with this method if your eventual product is DVD.


If you want to check the frame rate of a m2t file open it with MPEG streamclip and hit "COMMAND +I" or try opening in Quicktime and doing the same thing. I'm not sure why you were getting 23.50. That doesn't make any sense. You should ask Frederic over on the Lumiere HD forum if this is a problem with the beta. I will try it and let you know what my results are.

[Markus Ehinger]

Hi Tim,

what are the pros and contras of the SONY Z1 and the JVC GY HD100 for you?
I have the feeling that the picture from tape of the JVC is a little noisy- not as clear as the sony. But the JVC gives the better filmlook while Sony has more of a videolook.
But if you use a mini35 or a micro35 redrock which cam would be the better cam for 35mm style filmlook pictures?
Best regards

Markus

[dashwood]

Hi Tim,

what are the pros and contras of the SONY Z1 and the JVC GY HD100 for you?
I have the feeling that the picture from tape of the JVC is a little noisy- not as clear as the sony. But the JVC gives the better filmlook while Sony has more of a videolook.
But if you use a mini35 or a micro35 redrock which cam would be the better cam for 35mm style filmlook pictures?
Best regards

Markus

There are many things to consider when attempting to achieve a "film-look." Progressive 24P is just one aspect. Using a mini35 device also helps achieve the optical characteristics of 35mm lenses. The third, (and I consider most important) is the how well a video camera can emulate how film emulsion reacts to light.
This is obviously the biggest challenge of 2/3" and smaller CCDs. That's where gamma curve control comes into play.

IMHO, the Z1 looks more like "video" because it doesn't have as much control over the knee of the curve. Doing some 60i to 24P digital voodoo in post isn't going to make up for it. The HD100 doesn't have as much control as a Varicam, or F950, but it definitely is more controllable than any other digital camera in its price range (other than possibly the XLH1 - time will tell.)

As for compression, you should check out some other threads on pros and cons of 1080i and JVC's "ProHD" 720P implementation of HDV. In 24P mode I think the HD100 handles it quite well. There haven't been any definitive side-by-side tests between the two yet. I have access to a FX1, but I would like to get my hands on a Z1 sometime soon to shoot a side-by-side.

[filmfactory]

Thank you Tim.. that was so helpful. I made a post over on the Lumiere forum and I'll be sure to follow up here wwith the answer.. if there is one!

Regards,

Billy

[dashwood]

Thank you Tim.. that was so helpful. I made a post over on the Lumiere forum and I'll be sure to follow up here wwith the answer.. if there is one!

Regards,

Billy

Hi Billy. I'm glad I could be helpful. I checked the files Lumiere HD 1.6b2 made for me and they were all 23.98fps, so I'm not sure why you got some 23.5? Are you sure you weren't looking at "current frame rate" while the file was playing?