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    Senior Member Liam Hall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmguy123 View Post
    Isn't discussing relevant topics in a grown up way suppose to be the whole forum? Seems like the creation of a false dichotomy. Many people here have anonymous user names but post links to their website and communicate with each other using real names in PM, selling gear to each other, etc. There is actually a bit less anonymity here under the surface; the anonymity here is often for the outside world less than the inside core members here.



    Beyond burglary, which is a real concern for some, many don't want their business diluted with their 10+ year chat history showing up on google search for a number of reasons: you may have asked questions on how to deal with the very client who might google you. You may have asked questions on what gear to use or what setup to use on a shoot and someone could read that and think you are incompetent by having to ask. You ask how to fix a mistake in production, or a problem on your computer, etc.. The list goes on with a multitude of innocent professional questions here beyond cancel culture.

    Unless the entire forum becomes completely closed and unsearchable to the outside world, as well as internally vetted to remove all lesser known or not entirely trusted members, the reality is removing privacy is less about taking the mask off of individuals talking to each other here, and more like recording, cataloging, and broadcasting conversations between a small group for the entire world, who was never part of the conversation, to simply search and read on a whim. Such a thing is unnatural and does not mirror any of our other relationships in life. It also freezes in time opinions, perspectives, and thoughts that simply don't represent us at all years later (and I am not talking about offensive thoughts, it could be something as simple as 'I don't like doing weddings' and then 5 years later it turns out you grow to love doing weddings, and now a client searches you, and sees you wrote how you don't like doing weddings).

    If one wants a forum that is more like a public amphitheater or town hall meeting for video pros that anyone can come listen in on, that's a noble enough desire, but it's inherently different without search engine anonymity. Personally I would never ask a single question about things like batteries, or share about my travel experiences, ask how to recover corrupt data, or ask for feedback/help in something I messed up.

    I suspect I'm not alone, and the end result would be a more stifled culture.



    The idea that the people doing the cancelling are infallible, or even correct at all to begin with, is part of your presupposition here. The idea that outsourcing a form of retributionary, non empathetic, hyper judgmental justice to a digital mob in a conduit that often lacks nearly all forms of nuance is a second implicit presupposition.

    The argument of not being concerned of burglary, cancel culture, your name tied to every post, etc. essentially boils down to the classic and simplistic privacy argument: "if you don't have anything to hide, what's the big deal?" The main problem with this position is that history has proven it na´ve, and not for the "right" reasons.
    I'd like to go through this post and point out what I believe are logic fails and misconceptions, believe me, I feel there are quite a few. It's my wife's birthday, I have a tomahawk steak ready to go on the BBQ and I'm not wasting my time debating someone who may be a trainee accountant, a twelve year-old ballet dancer or the next big thing in Holywood who doesn't have the decency to reveal his/her identity. Life is too short.
    "There is nothing permanent except change."
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    Totally Usable Mod Stephen Mick's Avatar
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    (The below is not the collective opinion of the moderators or admins, just my thoughts.)

    The “real names” idea is something we’ve come back to a number of times over the years. There are certainly pros and cons to this approach, most of which I think have been laid out in this thread already. And it’s certainly something we COULD implement, but given what I’ve seen at other forums, I don’t know if the end result would have the effect we collectively want.

    DVXUser has, really from the beginning, been a place where filmmakers of all levels could come. But mainly, we’ve mostly been a membership of “learning” filmmakers. Many have come to the site when just starting out, and with a load of questions that they might not ask if forced to use real names. I’m not saying that, in and of itself, is a reason to keep to the existing policy. But it certainly has mattered to a number of members over the years.

    Now, have things changed in the online world? Sure. Could we shift to a real names-only forum? We could. My feelings at the moment are that we have quite a bit of other work to do to get the focus of this forum back on the craft of filmmaking, and that’s where I would like to start.

    On the topic of gender diversity, this is a tough one. I would certainly love to see more of that here on User, but it would be something we would have to actively build, first by recruiting female professionals (of which I know a few) to come and share their expertise. Then we would have to work to attract female filmmakers, primarily new or growing ones, to the site. But given the fractured nature of today’s online landscape, there are so many other places for them to gather, like FB groups, etc., I think we’d be rolling a boulder up a hill on that. So I’m not sure how to address that, but I think it’s worth looking into.

    My thoughts are a bit scattered at the moment, and I only had a brief few moments to put this down. But I am (and we, as mods, are) listening, and will continue to do so.
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    filmguy123, I agree with your post. Granted, all of the downsides of using real names are unlikely to happen. But it's just easier to err on the safe side, so that I don't have to think about it as much.

    Like I said, if there was some advantage to using real names, then maybe that would outweigh these reservations. But in my experience, real names provide no advantage, at least not on DVXUser. I've been a member for over 12 years. I just don't see the vitriol here that proponents of real names warn about.

    Is it happening in certain sections? I admit I don't visit most threads here. I click What's New, skim the headlines for what's interesting, and click those (which is only 1 out of 20 threads). And, having started in video production in 1990, and am retired from that as a profession, I don't normally click on the technical questions about a particular camera or piece of software. The threads that interest me are more general ones about industry news, directing actors, structuring screenplays, lighting, film theory, film critiques, etc. You might say DVXUser could be stratified between (1) practical how-to's on specific cameras, and (2) general theoretical discussions. A lot of the complaint in this thread seem to mention the first category. Am I reading that right? So maybe those particular threads have a different atmosphere, where a lot of annoying people make a lot of annoying statements that are of little use to information seekers.

    What I can say is that I notice zero betterment of realnamers over codenamers. In fact, many of my favorite people use codenames: James0b57, puredrifting, roxics, filmguy123, and others. They are all polite, knowledgable, and have been here for years and years with little or no incident.

    For whatever reason, and this is just a data point, most of the people that have rubbed me the wrong way have used their real names! They don't go around spewing ridiculous vitriol like you might see at the bottom of the page on some news website. But, I don't know, they just come across as arrogant. When I speak to them, and they speak back, I feel like they already view me as obviously some kind of insect or lower life-form for even disagreeing with them. I see how they talk to me and others, and it's like they don't look at us as equals.
    Last edited by combatentropy; 03-04-2021 at 11:54 AM.
     

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    Senior Member Peter C.'s Avatar
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    About the real names topic. I did a half measure including part of my name. I prefer addressing people by there first names so I extended that courtesy to others. But I've held back on my last name because I frequently have questions or observations on projects I'm currently working on so I wouldn't like the client or colleagues stumbling on me revealing details about my own troubles or their project. The other reason is, I'm not too keen on the way people act here. I don't feel like sharing anything to personal with people I don't trust or respect. While I wouldn't be opposed to it if the forum mandated real names, I don't think it would change the attitude of the rude, arrogant, defensive, and argumentative members here. To help this forum thrive it would have to engage in other social platforms but would also have be more strictly moderated or use real names or people would need to behave better. But at the end of the day if you have a group of people enjoy arguing amongst themselves so prove who's smarter then I'm not sure there is much to be done because they like it the way it is.
    Last edited by Peter C.; 03-04-2021 at 12:06 PM.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Scott View Post
    Please ask and don't tell me what my suppositions are if you would like clarification on something I have said. It's not an argument. It's an opinion.
    Opinions also, and always, have presuppositions. The presupposition may or may not align with a person's intent. I am not attempting to tell you your intent, only one of the implicit presupposition that comes with this statement (and made clear in your follow up explanation):

    Cancel culture is part of an ongoing weaponisation of the language of empathy by those that stand to lose out if they are held to account for the things they say or do... If your concern is that people might call you out for what you have said first take a look at what you have said.
    I am not attempting to say whether or not you are correct or incorrect in your opinion, only pointing out why we disagree beneath the surface. Your statement makes sense, but only if you accept the underlying things your opinion supposes. You clarified these in your follow up.

    Personally my view on things with the forum has little to do with cancel culture in the political sphere, since this is primarily a technical forum, so this was an aside and a distraction... I already articulated what I see as more pragmatic and relevant concerns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Scott View Post
    Consider the source. Of everything. Of opinion. Of news. Of information.... If the source is 'anonymous guy off the internet' I give it zero weight.
    I agree that knowing who said something to determine motivation or context can sometimes be helpful. An alternative view is to to primarily consider the logic and reason of what is said, independent of the source.

    The first is most helpful for people who have extremely limited experience and don't even know where to begin; the second is most helpful for people with more experience to pull from, who are capable of logical deducing the input of another to see if such a suggestion or idea would be helpful or point them in a new creative direction. One would probably miss out on an awful lot of valuable ideation if you write off every idea in which you don't know the source.

    It's one thing to consider the source, it's another thing to live by the source.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Scott View Post
    It's been explained by multiple people multiple times that they cannot lend weight to the opinions of someone who refuses to be open and honest about who they are and their background... If that is who you want to be then great.
    The phrasing here is a bit over zealous, no? The idea that the existence of one single conduit for people to engage with anonymity means they "refuse to be open and honest about who they are" and that "that is who they want to be" said in such a wholesale way feels to be a bit of an overreach. Regardless, as already stated, many people engaging here already know who each other are; a large part of the desire for anonymity is for the outside world since this is not a closed forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Scott View Post
    This place will slowly become the exclusive reserve of the 'let me tell you this' gang
    Ironically, I've observed this sort of thing far more on real name social media platforms like Facebook than here, or in real life real name crews.

    I rather enjoy seeing those with strong opinions on gear and technique respectfully duke out their strong opinions as it helps me understand the rationale for each and deduce for myself what will work for my workflow.

    As a second point of irony, the "big guys" with the most experience are not always correct. The anonymity can level the playing field and allow other smaller voices to come through - for ideas to be heard on the merit of the idea itself, not just the powerful voice.
     

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    Senior Member Ben Scott's Avatar
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    It's just my opinion.

    Well actually... Here's a list of all the reasons why you are wrong. Signed, anonymous guy.
    Repeat ad nauseum. I get it. Sure okay you win the internet well done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by combatentropy View Post
    in my experience, real names provide no advantage, at least not on DVXUser. I've been a member for over 12 years. I just don't see the vitriol here that proponents of real names warn about.... What I can say is that I notice zero betterment of realnamers over codenamers. In fact, many of my favorite people use codenames... They are all polite, knowledgable, and have been here for years and years with little or no incident.
    My personal experience has been the same. I could list many other anonymous users I feel the same way about (you are one of them), and as is, many of us have connected in real life outside of the forum as a result.
     

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    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liam Hall View Post
    Good post Filmguy123. Though, I take a different view, I get your point re-real names. The world would be very dull if we all agreed on everything.

    My question to you and other anonymous keyboard crunchers, how would you feel if we had a "pro's corner" on this site where people use their real names and discusss all of the topics relevant to professionals in a grown up, as though we are face-to-face, kind of way?
    Filmguy did have a good post.

    Regarding the "Pro" forum, and I think I already mentioned this, or possibly in a PM to someone, I was on a TV photography forum that predates DVX and at one point was one of the very few places of its kind on the internet. It was almost solely working professionals, to begin with, but for some reason they decided to make a 'Pro Forum'(the name of the sub-forum). To post in it, you had to seperately register your real name, even if you already posted under your real name(which was still considered JUST a screen name). So you would actually have your screen name(which may be your real name) and then your real name in a smaller print/typeface underneath it) and I believe it also said something to the effect of "Pro" or "Pro User" next to it. This subform, on a forum of probably ~95% working professionals, died a pretty quick death. After the initial "newness" wore off, it had very little activity and when they eventually revamped the site, they didn't even bother porting that sub-forum over. I just did a quick search for it on there and could not find it.

    So from my experience over the years on forums that I've participated in on here, REDUser and other professional and hobby/interest based boards, posting under your real name vs. a screen name doesn't guarantee what you're going to get one way or the other. I've seen plenty of polite and professional exchanges and great information come from those posting under screen names and I've seen plenty of bad, rude, mean behavior and trolling from people posting under their "real name". Which also begs the question, exactly how do forums verify a given name is the members real name?
     

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    Changing username is difficult. When I started here I gave nickname and password. After a while I found out that changing username is a 'pain in the bibs'.

    No problem using my real name: Peter Bosman, one of many worldwide. Not affraid of burglars.

    But then again I live in a more civilized part of the world. (By the way is this last part trolling or is it slightly funny?)
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Publimix View Post
    Changing username is difficult. When I started here I gave nickname and password. After a while I found out that changing username is a 'pain in the bibs'.

    No problem using my real name: Peter Bosman, one of many worldwide. Not affraid of burglars.

    But then again I live in a more civilized part of the world. (By the way is this last part trolling or is it slightly funny?)
    Haha. Ask for it to be changed to 'Peter Bosman not afraid of burglars.'
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