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    Senior Member JPNola's Avatar
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    The wider discussions here beyond tech are a reason I am here more than on forums such as Reduser where things are more limited to tech / gear / cinematography.

    Just to clarify- my comment about hand-wringing wasn't to dismiss or even downplay concerns over issues like diversity in general. More that I simply do not see where this forum is prone to racist, sexist, or otherwise objectionable content. It happens. But imo it hasn't risen to anything worrisome. Easy for a white male to say, I know. And others have a different take, clearly, if they are leaving or threatening to leave as a result of their perception that the forum is irredeemable and not something they want to be a part of.

    That last part- announcing you are done with the forum because it is a hotbed of racism and sexism, seems more "jumping the shark" than anything else here. The sexist comments were immediately condemned and it was made clear that they are unwelcome here. That a soul-searching, introspective thread like this takes place here at all is a good reflection upon the forum, no? Can we not throw the baby out with the bathwater? I like many things here. And many of the people active here. I'd hate to see it cancelled.
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    Senior Member Liam Hall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPNola View Post
    Knowing a user’s real name doesn’t tell others anything as to experience-level in and of itself.

    A person joining the forum can claim any name they like as their real-name.

    It is a common fallacy that real-name use improves behavior:

    https://boingboing.net/2017/01/06/us...ine-doesn.html

    “ the balance of experimental evidence over the past thirty years suggests that this is not the case. Not only would removing anonymity fail to consistently improve online community behavior – forcing real names in online communities could also increase discrimination and worsen harassment.

    We need to change our entire approach to the question. Our concerns about anonymity are overly-simplistic; system design can’t solve social problems without actual social change.”

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/real-...cy-erkki-helio
    I missed the comment from you JP. With reflection, it's isn't just about civility (I'm can be as rude as anyone on here) so much as honesty and transparency. Plus, and just as important, is enabling a reader to 'consider the source'. If someone asks what is the best piece of equipment for X or best method for Y your response will have more weight if we know who you are and what you do.
    "There is nothing permanent except change."
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    Senior Member Ben Scott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    In general though, do most sites just take your word for it? For example, on REDUser I don't think I was ever asked for anything that could be considered definitive towards proving my identity/real name. I just put my name and email address down. Although it did take months to get approved. Not being argumentative, just curious as to how that actually works.
    Again it's not something for people to try and police. It's just an ideal. You cannot legislate for people that want to act nefariously or bend the rules. All you can do is state how you'd like things to be and promote that.
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    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPNola View Post
    The wider discussions here beyond tech are a reason I am here more than on forums such as Reduser where things are more limited to tech / gear / cinematography.

    Just to clarify- my comment about hand-wringing wasn't to dismiss or even downplay concerns over issues like diversity in general. More that I simply do not see where this forum is prone to racist, sexist, or otherwise objectionable content. It happens. But imo it hasn't risen to anything worrisome. Easy for a white male to say, I know. And others have a different take, clearly, if they are leaving or threatening to leave as a result of their perception that the forum is irredeemable and not something they want to be a part of.

    That last part- announcing you are done with the forum because it is a hotbed of racism and sexism, seems more "jumping the shark" than anything else here. The sexist comments were immediately condemned and it was made clear that they are unwelcome here. That a soul-searching, introspective thread like this takes place here at all is a good reflection upon the forum, no? Can we not throw the baby out with the bathwater? I like many things here. And many of the people active here. I'd hate to see it cancelled.
    I don't think the forum is prone to racist content. I'm not sure that the other chap's issue with the diversity thread was "racism" per se as much as failing to acknowledge the difference in experience for white people vs ethnic minorities in the workplace. And probably moreover a feeling of rooting for one's own team at the expense of people like him. But I could be wrong. I never asked him to elaborate.

    I think sexism actually comes up much more frequently and casually, and there were a number of people who supported those specific sexist comments. They weren't universally condemned.

    I think that people who aren't at the top of the social totem pole might appreciate an explicit commitment to fairness and an acknowledgement of the barriers they face. And I think that JB felt like he didn't want to associate with a culture that lacked that commitment. But of course, I'm just speculating.

    Regarding some of the rudeness and aggressiveness - I think it makes it a less pleasant place for everyone, but I also think that members of the socially dominant group are conditioned to feel greater authority and permission to push their opinions in a combative environment, so that type of atmosphere discourages others from participating. And perhaps men are less put off by overt confrontation, though I hesitate to make such a generalization. Again, just speculation.

    Frankly, I don't have a complete analysis and I don't have definitive answers. I just noticed an apparent lack of diversity and I wondered why that was. I admit that the internet is generally a cesspool of vitriol these days, so we're setting a relatively high bar for dvxuser. But I invest a lot of time and emotion in the forum, so I'd be glad to see it be as good as possible. I don't think of cultivating a broader membership as "giving" something to them but rather benefiting from what they have to offer. Just as I was perturbed by JB's banning for his sake but also concerned in a self-serving way about my loss of his knowledge.
    Last edited by ahalpert; 03-08-2021 at 06:07 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    There are people that fit multiple categories and float or straddle the line between many types of productions. I've said before, one of DVX's best attributes, diversity of "production worlds" represented, is also one of its weaknesses, because so often advice is given from someone in a different "world" and it's never qualified as coming from that certain perspective. It's only presented as "this is the only way to do it". And it's fine to give advice from other perspectives, it helps people learn, but they need to know, for example, if that info may be coming from a DP working on a big budget series and that's how it's done in that world, not how a one-man band doing a low-budget corporate shoot is going to be able to pull it off.
    I agree. It would be helpful if the forum had users fill out a detailed bio. Like a CV without the specifics but it gives people an idea of what part of the industry you inhabit and what informs your experience and opinion. I know other online communities I am in put more emphasis on detailed bios of industry interest and work experience along with some samples of work etc.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    I don't think the forum is prone to racist content. I'm not sure that the other chap's issue with the diversity thread was "racism" per se as much as failing to acknowledge the difference in experience for white people vs ethnic minorities in the workplace. And probably moreover a feeling of rooting for one's own team at the expense of people like him. But I could be wrong. I never asked him to elaborate.

    I think sexism actually comes up much more frequently and casually, and there were a number of people who supported those specific sexist comments. They weren't universally condemned.

    I think that people who aren't at the top of the social totem pole might appreciate an explicit commitment to fairness and an acknowledgement of the barriers they face. And I think that JB felt like he didn't want to associate with a culture that lacked that commitment. But of course, I'm just speculating.

    Regarding some of the rudeness and aggressiveness - I think it makes it a less pleasant place for everyone, but I also think that members of the socially dominant group are conditioned to feel greater authority and permission to push their opinions in a combative environment, so that type of atmosphere discourages others from participating. And perhaps men are less put off by overt confrontation, though I hesitate to make such a generalization. Again, just speculation.

    Frankly, I don't have a complete analysis and I don't have definitive answers. I just noticed an apparent lack of diversity and I wondered why that was. I admit that the internet is generally a cesspool of vitriol these days, so we're setting a relatively high bar for dvxuser. But I invest a lot of time and emotion in the forum, so I'd be glad to see it be as good as possible. I don't think of cultivating a broader membership as "giving" something to them but rather benefiting from what they have to offer. Just as I was perturbed by JB's banning for his sake but also concerned in a self-serving way about my loss of his knowledge.
    As always very well articulated. I think people are caught on the hyperbole in the title which is tongue in cheek but having an honest discussion of what can be made better isn't an attack on those who like it as is. Lots of great ideas presented.

    What about having different sections of DVXUSER with different rules. That way tech forums stay tech focussed and those topics that warrant a more lively discussion or those actually looking to debate or argue about topics can have that forum also with a different tone.
     

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    Senior Member Eric Coughlin's Avatar
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    I suggest attaching rocket boosters to the sharks so that when an attempt to jump them is made the sharks can fly out of the water and devour the offending jumper.
     

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    Senior Member JPNola's Avatar
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    I suggest this thread be closed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Coughlin View Post
    I suggest attaching rocket boosters to the sharks so that when an attempt to jump them is made the sharks can fly out of the water and devour the offending jumper.
    ...i think this comment reviving a thread that had died off, was perfect humour. two thumbs up.
     

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