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    #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesPapert View Post
    Haha, "they" is kind of funny--yes I can indeed discuss what "they" were using!

    For Aerobics Meltdown we (!) used SDX900's, Panasonic's last 2/3" SD camera, which had 24p capability. I can't remember now if we recorded to internal tape (DVCPRO I think?) or SDI out to external file recorders but I think both, with the tape as backup. For the opening of the sketch the post dept ran the footage through two generations of VHS to add some tape artifact. When it returns to those cameras later on, it was the straight footage from the camera sans tape effect.

    We did indeed use vintage cameras on other sketches; KY1900 3-tube cameras for "Tackle and Grapple" "Mr. T PSA" and "Funky Nonsense". For "Obama College Years" it was a similar vintage Magnavox home video camera which I had built out with an old Datavideo DV recorder (like a Firestore) on the back, via its composite video dongle. Still have all of those cameras and hope to use again someday!

    A few months ago I had opportunity to play in vintage sandbox again on "A Black Lady Sketch Show", with footage that was meant to resemble an 80's sports broadcast. I hunted for the SDX900's but was unable to find any left in Los Angeles. I instead opted for a couple of HDX900's which were pretty much the same camera with 1080i/720p capability, which will hopefully get a little post treatment to further age down the footage. Since the 80's saw the transition from tube to chip cameras this was an acceptable compromise, but I would have loved a bit more artificating in the image!
    haha, sorry.

    Online forums and actual television production generally seem so far apart that I subconsciously referred to the people working there (YOU!) as they.

    And TY. Cool cameras!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex H. View Post
    @NorBro, check out Charles’s epic K&P thread in the Cinematography section. Excellent lighting breakdowns and some camera notes, including that one.

    http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...post1986496357
    TY. I used to visit here and there when it was really active back then. (I never saw post #78!)


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    #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesPapert View Post
    ... I instead opted for a couple of HDX900's which were pretty much the same camera with 1080i/720p capability, which will hopefully get a little post treatment to further age down the footage. Since the 80's saw the transition from tube to chip cameras this was an acceptable compromise, but I would have loved a bit more artificating in the image!
    From what I recall reading - the major switch in video quality took place around 1978, when the Germans (I think it was Telefunken) upped the quality to the next level. In the US, RCA TK 76 and 47 were big into the late 1980's.

    I remember watching the 1974 and the 1978 World Cups and the difference was quite striking. The quality then stayed fairly constant until the 2002 WC when the hosts (Japan Korea) recorded some matches in HD. With the WC's and the Olympic games often serving as the showcase for the new pro gear, one could revisit the old highlights and see the steps from one era to the next.


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    #23
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    For gits and shiggles.

    The 1970 WC final highlights of Brazil vs Italy. Obviously, digitally restored, by FIFA but a lot of noise in the image. It was uploaded last year during the pandemic.



    1974 West Germany - Netherlands. Feels like a different era.



    1978 - Argentina-Netherlands (from FIFA but an old upload in 480p)



    1982 - semi-final West Germany - France (a 480 upload, minor improvement if any)



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    #24
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    I can't say I see much of a difference between 1970 and 1982 (besides the change in time/people/atmosphere).

    Very little if anything, tbh.

    Maybe not the best examples, but in hindsight it's probably because of the minor IQ increases that we live through that we don't really see much of the overall major IQ transition until many years later. (Some improvements are more noticeable than others.)


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    #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesPapert View Post
    Haha, "they" is kind of funny--yes I can indeed discuss what "they" were using!

    For Aerobics Meltdown we (!) used SDX900's, Panasonic's last 2/3" SD camera, which had 24p capability. I can't remember now if we recorded to internal tape (DVCPRO I think?) or SDI out to external file recorders but I think both, with the tape as backup. For the opening of the sketch the post dept ran the footage through two generations of VHS to add some tape artifact. When it returns to those cameras later on, it was the straight footage from the camera sans tape effect.

    We did indeed use vintage cameras on other sketches; KY1900 3-tube cameras for "Tackle and Grapple" "Mr. T PSA" and "Funky Nonsense". For "Obama College Years" it was a similar vintage Magnavox home video camera which I had built out with an old Datavideo DV recorder (like a Firestore) on the back, via its composite video dongle. Still have all of those cameras and hope to use again someday!

    A few months ago I had opportunity to play in vintage sandbox again on "A Black Lady Sketch Show", with footage that was meant to resemble an 80's sports broadcast. I hunted for the SDX900's but was unable to find any left in Los Angeles. I instead opted for a couple of HDX900's which were pretty much the same camera with 1080i/720p capability, which will hopefully get a little post treatment to further age down the footage. Since the 80's saw the transition from tube to chip cameras this was an acceptable compromise, but I would have loved a bit more artificating in the image!
    I still have my two Betacams(one 1/2" 3CCD 4:3 and one 2/3" 3CCD 4:3/16:9 switchable) and tape VariCam(2/3" 3CCD 720P) in my gear closet in my office. And a CD nanoFlash in a case in my truck.


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    #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorBro View Post
    I can't say I see much of a difference between 1970 and 1982 (besides the change in time/people/atmosphere...
    1970 was upscaled but with a lot of noise still in the image. Others were left as is.

    This is from 1981, looks close to the original.



    These are clips from the 60's and the 70's (the 70's are in color)



    1983



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    #27
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    #28
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    Thinking about the history of video production makes you really appreciate the wonder of cinema and film and what people have been able to create with it for the last century.

    It's all really interesting the more I think about it because for a very long time moving images solely depended on access to limited technology, your financials, and your understanding and knowledge of properly handling what you just captured (film or digital). [Still does with digital today but it's much easier.]

    With color, there are creations from each decade that are visually superior, but looking back I think there was a lengthy IQ stagnation for a very long time. If you muted the audio and focused on the visuals, your brain would recognize the change in people, the clothes, the collection of matter - but the resolution and colors, collectively, barely improved until more resolution was introduced and available to be seen.

    Cinema aside (because of the gauges and stocks), television continued to appear slightly sharper, a bit more saturated, and maybe overall more pleasant - but you could also easily mix and match a variety of work from each decade if you were unable to identify the time period.

    The turning point with widely available high-definition screens (with modern broadcasting) and the ALEXA were possibly the greatest achievements in this industry's history. Such defining tools and the best major improvements in visual image quality consuming and acquisition.

    ___

    On a side note, it's funny how life works. With the exception of cinema's best-of-the-best:

    Pre-ALEXA --> Mostly everything looked the same because of limited technology and money.
    Post-ALEXA --> Mostly everything looks the same because of practically no barrier to entry and superior technology.

    ___

    Visually, everything is so incredibly boring today. Everyone's work looks the same on YouTube.

    Another IQ stagnation, IMO.

    I'm realizing that the older I become the more I find myself really loving film and classic cinema (I guess that happens to a lot of us), but I'm also very interested to see what happens with 8K and beyond.


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    #29
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    It's peaks and valleys in term of image quality. The late 1930's saw a jump to color (AGFA and its US subsidiary), then there was a pause until the 40's/early 50's, when TV arrived en masse and the film studios felt compelled to go with 65mm and Vista Vision. Then the film was fine but, in the late 60's-early 70's, the look of the movies switched to the flatter, more documentary style. Then it rebounded with Spielberg's return to the classic appearance and it's kind of where we were today in theaters, even though the projection is digital.

    In home entertainment, the big jump was to color broadcasts in the late 60/s/early 70's, the switch from the OTA to cable in the early-mid-80's and the VCR revolution that came roughly at the same time. Then the rear projection TV's became both affordable and presentable and then HD appeared in small quantities at the turn of the century and that's where the TV is still. Streaming - via YouTube at the beginning and now in 4K - is the king of the hill now.

    PS. I saw the Soviet classic "Irony of Fate" on December, 31, 2007/January, 1, 2008 on YouTube in a glorious 240p. It was uploaded by someone from Pasadena in 18 10-min clips, with the image pixelating each time something on the screen moved. Less than a decade later, most "professional" YouTubers upload in 4K.


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    #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    From what I recall reading - the major switch in video quality took place around 1978, when the Germans (I think it was Telefunken) upped the quality to the next level. In the US, RCA TK 76 and 47 were big into the late 1980's.
    I remember seeing a demo of a solid state (chip) camera at the SMPTE show in NYC in '84. So I would have to assume that they started making inroads over the next 5 years. I do remember primarily seeing Ikegami HL79's in use for most of that decade still but I was working in smaller markets.
    Charles Papert
    charlespapert.com


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