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    #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    A lot of the potential buyers complaining that the BMD PCC 6K Pro lacks usable AF don't get it, it is a mini cinema camera. Not really the right tool for events, weddings and documentary UNLESS you are cool with MF only and many are.
    I think I agree with you, but then BMD says on their webpage for the camera:

    Pocket Cinema Camera has the professional features you need for feature film, television programming and documentaries, however now these same features can be used to revolutionize other types of work such as blog videos, YouTube content and more.... Imagine getting film quality on independent film, music videos, weddings, corporate videos, documentaries and more!
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    Jim Feeley
    POV Media


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    #52
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    A lot of the potential buyers complaining that the BMD PCC 6K Pro lacks usable AF don't get it, it is a mini cinema camera. Not really the right tool for events, weddings and documentary UNLESS you are cool with MF only and
    many are. But in my mind, after shooting with the PCC 6K and the UMP G2, if AF is important to you, buy a Sony or Canon. If it's not, the PCC 6K Pro opens up a huge new value equation as far as bang for the buck and they really can
    make amazing images that compete far, far above their price level. I like the AF on my C200/300 MKII and even on the X-T3s but I would still like a PCC 6K Pro because it's just a different tool for different situations and I like the look and
    features. BMD is killing it. If they ever do get great AF, they could be a real threat to Sony and Canon. Their reliability seems better these days too than a few years ago.
    the thing is - I would like to use the bit-depth, codec, and color science of the pocket for anything. I don't see why I don't get to use that for weddings or events.

    Autofocus is a separate tool. It helps me nail focus on complex camera movements and, just as if not more importantly, it lets me keep both hands on the grips for stability. why can't I have my thick color and keep my autofocus too?

    I think "cinema camera" is sort of a facetious distinction because every little tool can get used on a movie and the most serious camera can get used for a rich kid's birthday party. yes, the exposure/control/ergonomics/connectivity features that the camera has or lacks are important, but still...


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    #53
    Senior Member puredrifting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Feeley View Post
    I think I agree with you, but then BMD says on their webpage for the camera:
    Yeah, but that's written by marketing people. I'm looking at what experience tells me. Trying to manually focus 6K with
    what is likely a focus by wire still lens when tracking moving subjects with a moving camera is basically pointless.
    Having an AC or two with FIZ control, a Teradek and blocking actors while using a quality cinema lens is a whole different world.
    Last edited by puredrifting; 02-22-2021 at 06:05 PM.
    It's a business first and a creative outlet second.
    G.A.S. destroys lives. Stop buying gear that doesn't make you money.


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    #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    ...I think "cinema camera" is sort of a facetious distinction.
    It can be a shorthand for those who have shot both style cameras and understand what that means away from marketing hype and on set. I agree, the lines have blurred and not saying that
    you can't shoot a wedding with a PCC 6K Pro. Of course you can, but your keeper ratio will go down if you fail to nail focus on the huge 6K raster, which means unhappy brides, right? Wrong tool
    for weddings and events for most of us. I found shooting exteriors with the PCC 6K, it was pretty challenging to truly NAIL that focus, especially with moving subjects like birds and boats.

    They'll likely eventually figure out or license effective AF, the world is changing but it's obviously not their primary goal right now and I am sure that
    the lack of usable AF isn't handcapping sales too much.
    It's a business first and a creative outlet second.
    G.A.S. destroys lives. Stop buying gear that doesn't make you money.


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    #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    It can be a shorthand for those who have shot both style cameras and understand what that means away from marketing hype and on set. I agree, the lines have blurred and not saying that
    you can't shoot a wedding with a PCC 6K Pro. Of course you can, but your keeper ratio will go down if you fail to nail focus on the huge 6K raster, which means unhappy brides, right? Wrong tool
    for weddings and events for most of us. I found shooting exteriors with the PCC 6K, it was pretty challenging to truly NAIL that focus, especially with moving subjects like birds and boats.

    They'll likely eventually figure out or license effective AF, the world is changing but it's obviously not their primary goal right now and I am sure that
    the lack of usable AF isn't handcapping sales too much.
    I mean, I don't think that nailing focus in 6K is any harder than in HD as long as you're delivering in HD and not cropping in in post, no? I shot manual focus exclusively until last september including full-frame 4K gimbal stuff and was never dissatisfied with my keeper rate. But AF expands my shot vocabulary and aids my stability by freeing the left hand.

    And the thing is - if the technology exists, it has to be considered in the equation of the quality you can deliver.

    The main thing I want from the pocket is bit-depth but also codec and, thirdly, color science. After that, video-oriented exposure controls and guides (although the false color on my ikan gives me solid exposure control of the A7SIII, and I couldn't lose the external monitor even if I switched to the pocket)

    Undoubtedly, if you sell a $3k lightweight camera with beautiful color that can shoot in low-light scenarios, anyone who could put that to use will give it a think and a comparison


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    #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    Yeah, but that's written by marketing people. I'm looking at what experience tells me.
    Yes, but that marketing explains why some potential buyers are upset about the AF. So their complaints are understandable, if misguided.
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    #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Feeley View Post
    Yes, but that marketing explains why some potential buyers are upset about the AF. So their complaints are understandable, if misguided.
    I dunno about "upset" about AF - but once the technology is out there, everything else will be compared to it. Now that Teslas exist, internal combustion sports cars will be compared to the tesla 0-60 etc even though they didnt get any slower.

    And look - big movies use all sorts of fancy focus tools. I think Brawley posted a shot of what looked like a heat map on his AC's display which was some sort of lidar distance readout of the shot. I read that on uncut gems they used something similar (maybe a new version of cinetape) to get precision distance on quick-moving improv staging while shooting with very shallow DOF (amateurs!).

    It's not like ACs are still getting by with a tape measure and a good eye for judging distance. I've also seen big focus buzzes make the cut in big budget tv and movies.

    Every tool has its time and place and its upsides and downsides. But the latest generation of autofocus have made me a believer, and I consider myself an excellent focus puller.

    Also - if a pocket is your A camera, then you probably can't afford a top notch focus puller anyway, right? Since it distinguishes itself from the UMP by being cheaper and more light-sensitive (and also smaller but the UMP is pretty small). Maybe even not if it's your B camera
    Last edited by ahalpert; 02-22-2021 at 09:48 PM.


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    The high end productions - not that I should be venturing into that discussion with Charles and JB posting - use an external ultrasound focus system with the separately powered motors and all controlled by the AC/focus puller remotely via his own monitor off a wireless signal. The high end cameras don't have a sensor controlled auto focus, either contrast or phase detect until one gets down to C500MKII and its dual-pixel system.


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    #59
    Senior Member Tom Roper's Avatar
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    Auto focus would be nice as would IBIS but I've managed good wedding results without them. MF only takes a second but what really burns valuable time, is swapping out ND. The 6K Pro on that feature alone ranks most important to me.


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    #60
    Senior Member Tom Roper's Avatar
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    I would add though, that the P6K ISO-100 even without the ND filters avails itself of 2-stops less exposure than my GH5S in V-Log; 400 is the minimum ISO.


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