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    #21
    Senior Member puredrifting's Avatar
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    Not sure if it's still available but if you can find the documentary, "King Corn", from about 10-15 years ago (I got the DVD in a promo pack when DVDs were a thing), it pretty much explains
    all of the negative trends we're now facing with the food supply in America. We cannot escape it's reach, corn syrup and it's derivitives are in almost everything we consume. And it all leads
    back to horrible government policies, farmers being paid to NOT grow crops, nearly useless strains of corn being developed strictly for fattening up cattle on feed lots. It's been a long time since
    I watched it but as I recall, the tentacles of this corn reach into almost every other food supply in this country. Nearly every product on your pantry shelf has something in it from this
    genetically mutated corn, either corn syrup, sugars, corn meal filler, livestock feed for all meat animals.

    This entire mess is a result of industrialized corporate farming, backwards government subsidies and policies. Everytime I spend a few weeks in France, I usually rent a place, buy my food at
    the supermarket and cook. After eating "real food" in France, when I come home and just consume the normal groceries and brands we all buy, I can taste a noticeable difference, everything here is
    so incredibly sweet compared to there. In comparison, our raw ingredients all taste very sweet and very bland, even our fruits and vegetables. We get mammoth Strawberries that look straight out of
    a catalogue but the small, paler Strawberries I have bought in France and the UK are so much more flavorful, if not as visually appealing. The Ham you buy in France and Spain is a whole other type of
    taste and texture than the salty, fatty, bland stuff that passes for Ham here.

    It's sad. For the average American who has probably gone most of their lives eating our ingredients from the supermarket, they don't even know what real food tastes like. Sure, we can get good ingredients
    here from some sources, small farms, organic, local but few people besides "foodies" bother because it's expensive and you have to go on treasure hunt from multiple sources to find those ingredients here.
    It's a business first and a creative outlet second.
    G.A.S. destroys lives. Stop buying gear that doesn't make you money.


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    #22
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    ...or, you can get a small acre-to-three of land outside of the corporatist urban hellscape and raise at least a portion of your own produce and protein. Takes some work, but so does uselessly running on a hamster wh.... er, treadmill.

    Downside is the internet often sucks, at least until StarLink gets online nationwide.

    This was how a majority of America lived until the about the 60-70s, when the big push began to herd humans into urban CAFOs to be milked for their efforts and kept fat and sedated on a .gov-controlled diet of corn and soy. Fully-domesticated humans are far easier to control.
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    #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    Not sure if it's still available but if you can find the documentary, "King Corn", from about 10-15 years ago Ö
    ...
    Here it is, on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywJO...H1lKcWK-SnL24m .
    What's being showed in that movie and what you wrote above, as true as it is, it's just scratching the surface of the issue.

    As I wrote recently in another thread here, read the following 2 books.
    Both books were published on 2020, and both books are based on both comprehensive scientific studies and research and practical results. Most of the scientific studies and research on which those books are based were done on the last 20 years, some were done as far back as middle 20th century.
    Both books deal with the way our diet impacts our health condition; where 'diet' means what we eat and what we don't eat, including our lifestyle. It's amazing to see that most disease are either caused, or are being greatly influenced by out diet.

    The first book is 'Total Gut Balance' by Dr. Mahmoud Ghannoum.
    The second book is 'Fiber Fueled' by Dr. Will Bulsiewicz, MD, MSCI.

    Both books contain recipes.
    The basic findings and the overall conclusions in the two books are either similar, close, or identical. Some of the recommendations are close, or similar, while others are different. I find that the two books are complementary, I follow a mixture of the recommendations of both.


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    #24
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    To be fair, over here in the UK we're right behind you in terms of obesity, and the corn thing isn't nearly such a big deal as corn is not a staple crop in this part of the world. I don't think it's that, or at least not entirely.

    Also:

    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    But what's interesting to me is how people can do everything "right" and still be overweight
    Overwhelmingly, people can't.

    There are a very small number of extremely rare medical conditions that can make it possible to gain weight other than by consuming excess calories, but the overwhelming majority of people who claim they're not overeating and still gain weight are quite simply miscalculating (or lying).

    I'm very cautious about promulgating the idea that there is much more to it than that because it muddies an issue that's really quite simple, even if it is associated with some stuff that's easy to say, and hard to do.

    P


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    #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
    It's amazing to see that most disease are either caused, or are being greatly influenced by out diet.
    Way back in my Animal Bioscience days at a mega-university, a lot of the animal nutrition course focused on crafting controlled diets from cheap ingredient and augmenting nutrients with additives.

    However, animals in concentrated housing on controlled diets are far more susceptible to disease, and thus have to be kept constantly medicated.

    To contrast, animals raised in more free-range conditions with decently managed pasture commonly exhibit less disease pressure and require far less medication. The protein characteristics and fat marbling typically have a more complex and desirable nature, but vary based on specific pasture conditions. This can be considered a downside by producers wanting a defined, homogenized product. Other potential downsides are that they also show slower weight gain and production; there is some debatable raised risk for losses from injury sustained on the range; and controlling the herd requires a greater expenditure of man-hours and management. The farm operators don't get as wealthy, so free range is thus not a common husbandry practice.



    On a totally unrelated note, the WEF's Great Reset ('Building Back Better') advocates concentrating humanity into dense urban housing and moving us towards a diet of cheaply-sourced plant-based (corn & soy) ingredients.............
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    #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbob View Post
    ...or, you can get a small acre-to-three of land outside of the corporatist urban hellscape and raise at least a portion of your own produce and protein. Takes some work, but so does uselessly running on a hamster wh.... er, treadmill...
    Indoor farming is ramping up everywhere. It's not suitable for the high rise dwellers en masse but a small lot on the outskirts of a metropolis, a greenhouse or two and one's control over his produce grows up exponentially.

    Or one could visit the weekend farmer markets too.


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    #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    Indoor farming is ramping up everywhere. It's not suitable for the high rise dwellers en masse but a small lot on the outskirts of a metropolis, a greenhouse or two and one's control over his produce grows up exponentially.

    Or one could visit the weekend farmer markets too.
    It's a step.

    One of the characteristics of indoor operations is that they are, essentially, CAFOs for plants. The facility operator tightly controls every single input in nutrient and environment. Obvious upsides to raw production numbers, but what does nature & the trillions of wild soil microorganisms know that the greenhouse operator never will? In other words, to echo one of Puredrifting's points... you'll get a big tomato, but what sort of flavor and nutrient value will that tomato have? Are you ultimately better off than just sitting back watching Netflix and letting TomatoCorp grow them for you?
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    #28
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Rhodes View Post
    Overwhelmingly, people can't.

    There are a very small number of extremely rare medical conditions that can make it possible to gain weight other than by consuming excess calories, but the overwhelming majority of people who claim they're not overeating and still gain weight are quite simply miscalculating (or lying).

    I'm very cautious about promulgating the idea that there is much more to it than that because it muddies an issue that's really quite simple, even if it is associated with some stuff that's easy to say, and hard to do.

    P
    I've known loads of people who exercised daily (more intensive than a 40-min walk) and ate "healthfully" but were never happy with their weight.

    Also, I think that if you're regularly experiencing hunger PAIN, then your diet is a failure. You should feel good if your regimen is appropriate.

    Look at what we've been told to eat:

    USDA_Food_Pyramid.gif

    Look at all those grains on the bottom. No mention of the difference in digestion between bread and rice. No mention of the difficulty some people have with dairy or peanuts. Fats are put in the same category as sweets, and you're also being told that saturated fat is the worst.

    I agree that behavior can play an important role, especially under stress. Watching my kids can be stressful, and often causes me to snack when I don't even feel hungry (especially because I'm not getting enough sleep). My candy intake has fluctuated since becoming a parent. On bad days/weeks, I see the effects accumulating in real time.

    But if my stress is down and I have greater motivation/energy, I can keep to my healthy foods (which do not correspond to that pyramid) and improve my health and figure without altering my exercise or constraining my intake.

    Do most obese people owe their condition to consuming bad food? Maybe. But it's notable to me that people who eat "well" can't lose weight or can't maintain the diet. And counting calories is a crock of s*%t IMO.


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    #29
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbob View Post
    It's a step.

    One of the characteristics of indoor operations is that they are, essentially, CAFOs for plants. The facility operator tightly controls every single input in nutrient and environment. Obvious upsides to raw production numbers, but what does nature & the trillions of wild soil microorganisms know that the greenhouse operator never will? In other words, to echo one of Puredrifting's points... you'll get a big tomato, but what sort of flavor and nutrient value will that tomato have? Are you ultimately better off than just sitting back watching Netflix and letting TomatoCorp grow them for you?
    I've heard that industrial farming has driven people from the country. You can't compete with that business model if no one is willing to pay you more for the difference. Then, there's the government subsidies


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    #30
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    Lots of signs that eating a bad diet can & will INCREASE your felt emotional stress... and conversely that a good diet can decrease felt stress. Feedback loops are real. Lots of sugar can make you nuts. Anybody with a toddler can readily see this in action
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