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    #31
    Senior Member puredrifting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C. View Post
    We're on to Chinese labor. So let me get this straight if it's well made that means the labor is also treated well. Reminds me of my sister who won't buy an iPhone because of slave labor. So that wouldn't invalidate your quality to labor treatment equation. Until they have some sort of labor standard that a product can meet and be labeled as such, it doesn't make sense making arbitrary moral decisions that aren't based on facts.
    We can buy "fairtrade" coffee, why not a "manufactureed without the use of slave labor" label for the electronics we buy?
    Totally voluntary and in order to use the brand/logo, the manufacturer has to prove to the governing body that their labor is well treated, not abused and
    paid fairly based upon the economy of the worker's area. I'd pay a premium for that, do you think most in our business would?
    It's a business first and a creative outlet second.
    G.A.S. destroys lives. Stop buying gear that doesn't make you money.


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    #32
    Senior Member Peter C.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    We can buy "fairtrade" coffee, why not a "manufactureed without the use of slave labor" label for the electronics we buy?
    Totally voluntary and in order to use the brand/logo, the manufacturer has to prove to the governing body that their labor is well treated, not abused and
    paid fairly based upon the economy of the worker's area. I'd pay a premium for that, do you think most in our business would?
    I'm all for that idea. I think if a big company like Apple, Sony, Canon, or even non tech companies did it the rest of the industry would follow suit. I guess the difficulty would be what standard constitutes non slave labor. What conditions, how much is a fair wage in China, who would be allowed to certify...

    While I was thinking this over I first thought maybe companies could sell like in the grocery store the same product a normal and then a more expensive "fair trade". But I think they couldn't do that because if you had a non-slave labor iPhone version then that would be admitting the rest of your products are slave labor.

    Besides that point I think something could be done and even if it was flawed it would be a step in the right direction. Because I think if given a chance to pay let say a few dollars or percent more there would be a substantial group of people who would do it. Especially if there was a recognizable symbol or branding.


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    #33
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbob View Post
    you and I must've been doing and thinking the exact same thing in between posts
    Small damn world, sometimes... Lol


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    #34
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    We can buy "fairtrade" coffee, why not a "manufactureed without the use of slave labor" label for the electronics we buy?
    Totally voluntary and in order to use the brand/logo, the manufacturer has to prove to the governing body that their labor is well treated, not abused and
    paid fairly based upon the economy of the worker's area. I'd pay a premium for that, do you think most in our business would?
    Not saying it's not a good idea, but no way in hell. So many in this business only care about how cheaply something can be done or bought. Otherwise the "knock-off" and bargain gear market would have never become so huge, so quickly.


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    #35
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    I'm for supporting non-slave labor products too as well as American made products. But Americans proved long ago and repeatedly that they will not pay even slightly more for a product made in America by American workers raising American families vs the Chinese/Taiwan/etc made imports. "We" just don't care, in large. Thats regarding consumer products. However, when it comes to pro-sumer production gear is it any different? I don't thnk so as mentioned above with the knock-off bargain gear becoming so huge. It's all about $$.

    Thanks for all the various interesting discussions in this thread including the information about the COB lights


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    #36
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    With the larger COB LED fixtures, like the 600d, It wouldn’t surprise me in the least, and may actually surprise me if they’re not, putting off as much or more heat overall than their traditional HMI counterparts, because of the other added electronics that aren’t necessary with our old “dumb” lights. The 600 has a fan in the ballast and the head. My 800 watt HMI’s don’t.

    Are you sure about that last comment regarding Intellytech? I know they’re based in CO, but I’m pretty sure the lights are made in a factory in China, just like so many others are. I love the lights of theirs that I own, but they feel like lower-to-mid tier build quality that would come out of a mass-production Chinese factory. Now, I am talking about their Litecloth panels. I’ve never laid hands on one of their Light Cannon fixtures.
    Dont the LEDs just have fans because they have a lower heat tolerance than HMI? But yeah good CRI LEDs have similar lumens/watt to HMI so I would imagine that heat output might be similar aside from the fact that the same electrical current will produce the same heat from resistance (maybe depending on cabling and the pathway?)


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    #37
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
    Not saying it's not a good idea, but no way in hell. So many in this business only care about how cheaply something can be done or bought. Otherwise the "knock-off" and bargain gear market would have never become so huge, so quickly.
    I disagree. I dont know how many people would pay more money for fair labor.

    But personally, I'm willing to compromise on product quality to save money as long as the product is "good enough". Saving money by taking it out of someone else's flesh is a totally different consideration.

    But is there a single electronics manufacturer who would currently qualify for such a certificate? Bye bye, M1!

    Supposedly China has agreed to move towards entering international agreements on slave labor as part of its recent trade deal with the EU. But is it just a fig leaf?


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    #38
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Posted this on the Nova/600d thread, too:

    Slightly bored and messing around with the 600d today... I mentioned earlier just how much heat I felt coming from the front of the light when it was dialed up. You cannot hold your hand directly in front of the reflector for long at 100%, so I was curious just how much heat the COB is throwing. I got my no-contact thermometer and checked the COB at .1% and got a reading around 80F something degrees. Then I cranked it to 100%. Immediately it was over 138F degrees. Then checked again, maybe 10 seconds later or, and it was over 154 F. Next I grabbed a receipt laying on the counter and held it just inside the reflector. Within seconds, the receipt started to smoke and it turned black (thermal paper).

    These things are absolutely no joke, and care should be taken when using them. I actually feel like these may be more dangerous than real HMI’s, because most people respect HMI’s, but because of everyone’s perception of LED’s, at least the relatively low powered ones we’ve been using over the last decade or so, they are kind of treated and viewed as toys, in a way. I kind of have some trepidation now about pointing this thing directly at talent, because I think the large, ultra bright COB may be much harder on the eyes if someone would accidentally look into it vs. the reflector on my 800 HMI. The F10 fresnel can’t get here soon enough...


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    #39
    Senior Member Run&Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    Dont the LEDs just have fans because they have a lower heat tolerance than HMI? But yeah good CRI LEDs have similar lumens/watt to HMI so I would imagine that heat output might be similar aside from the fact that the same electrical current will produce the same heat from resistance (maybe depending on cabling and the pathway?)
    That’s kind of my point. Our “old” HMI’s and tungsten fixtures don’t need active cooling to keep delicate electronics cool(below a certain level, more correctly). It goes back to what I say, everything has trade offs.


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    #40
    Senior Member Eric Coughlin's Avatar
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    I was trying to patent a lighting panel that had thousands of fireflies in it and market it as the first video light that is truly without heat. I even hooked up with a worm bait manufacturer named Gary's Big Worms and was able to get some big packages of worm bait to include with the lights so the owners could trap food to keep the light going. Unfortunately, PETA shot it down and as such I'm still a schnook freelance DP who eats egg noodles and ketchup.
    Last edited by Eric Coughlin; 01-01-2021 at 11:26 PM.


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