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    #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulears View Post
    EDIT
    Ah - found it. The protected feature is the recording of audio to an SD card while simultaneously transmitting it. How on earth did they get a patent on something like this when both devices already exist, and they just patented putting both in one box? Surely connecting any small audio recorder in the line to the transmitter can't be considered an infringement of a copyright when people have done it for years? I've clearly missed all the fuss this must have caused.
    Yes and that's why you cannot buy a Tascam DR-10CS SD card recorder with its mic loop through to TX in the States but you can buy it in Europe or Aussie with no difficulties. I believe you can only buy the Tascam DR-10L in the States. No loop through to feed into a TX. All down to Zaxcom's restrictive patent... crazy.

    Chris Young

    https://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p/...s-dr-10cs.html


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    #22
    Senior Member JAMedia's Avatar
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    The US Patent Office is generally held in low regard globally. Particularly in the high tech world. I have been involved in research on patents in this area. Due to that it is not unusual for there to be a global version and a US version.

    As noted above most devices of this type will me made to the same physical specs and will (should) pass all the transmission/emc regs globally as they are usually 95% the same. Normally it is only the channels/bands that differ for radio mics. Wi-fi and blue tooth are the same everywhere.

    I suspect that a firmware change is all that is needed. However... for Zoom to make an upgrade from US to global version Officially available for the US version would not be a good move. I can see a aw suite starting. The pre-update check by the firmware loader will probably look for an appropriate version signature. So you will need some one who can be trusted to hack the firmware signatures.

    There is little point in Zoom assisting in any way as anyone who really wants the international version can usually get one from Canada, Mexico or friends in Europe. Also as noted they whole thing is continually denting Zaxcom's reputation and ongoing sales in the USA. So it is doing Zaxcom more harm than good and not hurting Zoom.
    Last edited by JAMedia; 12-12-2020 at 06:37 AM.


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    #23
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    So I contacted Trew Audio in Toronto and Studio Economik in Montreal, both pro level dealers. No answer from Studio Economik and Trew called on Friday saying that despite several attempts by them to contact Zoom they still did not have an answer to the question: Is the Canadian version of the Zoom product an international or the same as the USA version (disabled output for recording) but they will continue to try to contact zoom and I will report back when I get news.
    Brian Murphy
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    #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMurphy View Post
    So I contacted Trew Audio in Toronto and Studio Economik in Montreal, both pro level dealers. No answer from Studio Economik and Trew called on Friday saying that despite several attempts by them to contact Zoom they still did not have an answer to the question: Is the Canadian version of the Zoom product an international or the same as the USA version (disabled output for recording) but they will continue to try to contact zoom and I will report back when I get news.
    Drive over the border to Canada. Set up an accommodation address buy a Lot of the normal units, drive south and sell them to Americans.
    Much like smuggling banned goods in to the USSR. :-)


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    #25
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    Don't have to drive to Canada, I am Canadian, live in Montreal. Our border is currently closed due to Covid in anycase. Personally I have no interest in breaking the law or profiting from this patent restriction, I just don't want to be disadvantaged as a result of an American issue.
    Brian Murphy
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    #26
    Senior Member puredrifting's Avatar
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    If you make a midnight run to the border or want to ship, I'll buy a black market Zoom, just on principal, I don't even need one. ;-)
    It's a business first and a creative outlet second.
    G.A.S. destroys lives. Stop buying gear that doesn't make you money.


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    #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMurphy View Post
    So I contacted Trew Audio in Toronto and Studio Economik in Montreal, both pro level dealers. No answer from Studio Economik and Trew called on Friday saying that despite several attempts by them to contact Zoom they still did not have an answer to the question: Is the Canadian version of the Zoom product an international or the same as the USA version (disabled output for recording) but they will continue to try to contact zoom and I will report back when I get news.
    Also being in Canada, I contacted the AVshop in Toronto. They have the US version. Initially thinking you were talking about the Tascam DR-10C, which also has an out to wireless but not 32 bit, I did a search for "Tascam DR-10C Canada" and came up with this: https://www.neqtiq.ca/products/tasca...gaAqvhEALw_wcB

    Despite having .ca address they are located in the UK. They don't seem to carry the 32 bit version.


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    #28
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    AVshop suggested this instead and will have it in January. https://www.avshop.ca/sound-amp-pa-a...code-recording

    Somewhat pricier than the Zoom. They specifically say it won't ship to the US


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    #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulears View Post
    I've done a bit of Googling but I'm left confused? What is this Zaxcom patent and what does it prevent other manufacturers doing? Passing audio through? Passing audio through what? Could somebody give a bit of context - I'm happy googling but can't quite find the correct search terms?

    EDIT
    Ah - found it. The protected feature is the recording of audio to an SD card while simultaneously transmitting it. How on earth did they get a patent on something like this when both devices already exist, and they just patented putting both in one box? Surely connecting any small audio recorder in the line to the transmitter can't be considered an infringement of a copyright when people have done it for years? I've clearly missed all the fuss this must have caused.
    In my personal opinion (IANAL), Zaxcom should never have got a patent for this.

    But the problem is that Zaxcom serves an extremely small small niche of a sub niche of a market.

    Thus nobody wants to truly try hard to bring this patent down by throwing tonnes of money and armies of lawyers at it.

    Thus the patent stands, and we have to put up with these ridiculous restrictions on what we can do on set if we're not part of the Zaxcom ecosystem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    Ahh, the patent business; something close to my heart. The idea of a patent being 'novel' is long gone. I don't know the history of how this came to be, but let's just assume corporate patent lawyers had a lot more time and money than the patent office. I used to have a job where I actually was assigned a quota to have my group submit a certain number of patent applications every year. I have patents on the most absurd things you can imagine; all in the name of patenting as much stuff as possible so that if any other company came at us with a patent suit, we could compare patents and negotiate a settlement. It's madness.
    This is the big problem, even if you're anti-patent-madness yourself, and you understand the big problems for society that harsh IP laws create, you still have to play the game and be proactively filing for as many patents as you can! So you've got an armoury to defend yourself for when the opponent's lawyers coming knocking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick R View Post
    Though I wonder how many future Zax buyers feel alienated, and will choose another manufacturer when that time comes.
    Zaxcom is the RED of the Sound Department world, in more ways than one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    The F2 is not a wireless transmitter. The transmitter some people may attach to it will be FCC certified. Sure, the F2 is a radiator like any electronic device, but I doubt the international version is any different from the FCC certified version with the exception that some firmware shuts off the output jack. On set, with all the other radiators, the F2 will likely be a tiny blip of no consequence and legal, but with no FCC gibberish on the outside.
    He might be referring to the non-USA version of the Audio Ltd A10 transmitters.
    Last edited by IronFilm; 12-26-2020 at 09:43 PM.
    Am a Sound Recordist in New Zealand: http://ironfilm.co.nz/sound/
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    #30
    Senior Member JAMedia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
    In my personal opinion (IANAL), Zaxcom should never have got a patent for this.
    But the problem is that Zaxcom serves an extremely small small niche of a sub niche of a market.
    Thus nobody wants to truly try hard to bring this patent down by throwing tonnes of money and armies of lawyers at it.
    Thus the patent stands, and we have to put up with these ridiculous restrictions on what we can do on set if we're not part of the Zaxcom ecosystem.
    .
    The US patent system is well known internationally for granting almost anything a patent (for a US firm) even if there is something similar elsewhere the world. As with this case it is designed to protect US companies against foreign competition rather than protecting anything novel. The US are not alone in this other countries such as China simply ignore foreign patents as several US companies have discovered.

    As noted Zaxcom serves a small niche of a niche market where anyone in the US who wants to get round it just gets a friend to order one in Europe or Canada. So there is no point in anyone challenging the patent. That costs money, probably more than the market is worth. However why spend money on challenging Zaxcom when the patent causes threads like this one that dent Zaxcom's standing (free of charge)?

    Due to the internet crossing borders without seeing them, anyone looking for this sot of device will find not only the competition to Zaxcom but many threads like this one discussing the situation. Is suspect the current, well documented, situation gains Zoom more sales, for free, than would be the case if they challenged and won the case against Zaxcom.


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