Zaxcom patent infringement question

[Greg_E]

So, in my personal FU to Zaxcom, I have spoken with a WELL known custom audio cable manufacturer* about my adapter cable to split a lav to both my Lectro beltpack and to the Tentacle Track E and they got back to me after some brief investigation and said it should work no problem and have quoted me the price for the adapter cable(a reasonable ~$65/each). The only gotcha, so far, they told me the adapter cables have to be purpose built for each model of lav, because of the routing of the wiring to the TRS connector. So I will start out with a couple for my Sanken’s only, since that is the vast majority of what I use and if completely successful, I may add a few for my B6’s(only have two, anyway) and Trams.

I don't know if or how well that will work, but I will confirm that different microphones do have different wiring to transmitters. Each transmitter expects one thing, each microphone expects something, and getting the two to work can require some oddities. Usually not some much messing around with TRS, but when you get into 4 pins you can get different bias supplies, and weird stuff. Also each microphone has an ideal range for the bias voltage. We had a Sabine 2.4ghz system many years ago that had a really low bias voltage, we had the worst luck trying to find condenser microphones that would sound decent, dynamic worked great, but hard to find a small lav in dynamic.

All that said, it should not be a great leap of faith (or intellect) to determine that having a wireless mic record a safety track is something that can be done (easily). There's that "obvious" part that seems to be lacking in the patent application process. Kind of surprised that his patent still exists, could Zaxcom really have that much money to fend off Sennheiser, Sure, etc.?

[JAMedia]

Kind of surprised that his patent still exists, could Zaxcom really have that much money to fend off Sennheiser, Sure, etc.?

If the patent had any merit they would have also filed it in the EU. The EU is a bigger market than the USA. However the EU Patent system is a bit more rigorous.
That they didn't file it inthe EU speaks volumes no matter how much the Zaxcom fanboys equivocate.

[Run&Gun]

I don't know if or how well that will work, but I will confirm that different microphones do have different wiring to transmitters. Each transmitter expects one thing, each microphone expects something, and getting the two to work can require some oddities. Usually not some much messing around with TRS, but when you get into 4 pins you can get different bias supplies, and weird stuff. Also each microphone has an ideal range for the bias voltage. We had a Sabine 2.4ghz system many years ago that had a really low bias voltage, we had the worst luck trying to find condenser microphones that would sound decent, dynamic worked great, but hard to find a small lav in dynamic.

All that said, it should not be a great leap of faith (or intellect) to determine that having a wireless mic record a safety track is something that can be done (easily). There's that "obvious" part that seems to be lacking in the patent application process. Kind of surprised that his patent still exists, could Zaxcom really have that much money to fend off Sennheiser, Sure, etc.?

Well, hopefully I will have the cables and Tentacles in sometime this week and will be able to find out for sure if it will work as envisioned. But considering Remote Audio is the one I ran this by(eventually after my other dealer couldn't give me a definitive answer) and they are the ones building the cables, hopefully they would have warned me if this was not going to work. BUT sometimes you just don't know until you do it. Who remembers the unforeseen problems and headaches Lectrosonics caused when they switched their belt packs over to the servo bias wiring? I shipped back two sets of belt packs(4) and at least one SR receiver and had them exchanged, because there was so much noise we thought everything was F'd up. Not even the dealers knew what was going on, at first. Eventually Lectro was like, oh yeah, we changed the design of the belt packs. You need to wire the lav's differently. I still have a set of 'non-servo bias' belt packs. You have to make sure the lav's wired for those packs STAY with those packs and those packs only. Almost gave one of my audio guys a heart attack one day when he grabbed the wrong lav's on a big shoot where we were running about four or five channels of wireless.

If the patent had any merit they would have also filed it in the EU. The EU is a bigger market than the USA. However the EU Patent system is a bit more rigorous.
That they didn't file it inthe EU speaks volumes no matter how much the Zaxcom fanboys equivocate.

I saw a good one over on JW Sound recently: "Zaxcommunists".

[Run&Gun]

Well, sadly, the splitter cables do not work as envisioned. They do technically work, but the level from the lav drops and extraneous noise is introduced when you raise it. Started playing around with it after I listened to it to see if I could figure out anything on my own and if you just plug the lav into the splitter and then only into the Lectro belt pack, there is no signal going into the Lectro. Plug the splitter into both and still nothing. Turn on the mic power in the Track E and then you have signal to both, albeit it's low and with added noise. And here is the strange part, unplug it from the Lectro and leave it only in the Track E and it sounds fine. So it does work as a TA5-to-3.5mm adapter, but you can find dedicated adapters for much less on Amazon.

I'm curious if they wired the splitter to not take/block power from the Lectro? I guess I'll call Remote Audio on Monday and see if they have any ideas based on the above or if this is just a dead-end. I am a little disappointed. I was cautiously optimistic and I like the Track E's after playing around with them(just received them yesterday). Even if they can't figure out a way to split the lav's cleanly and with enough signal, I'll probably still hang onto the Track E's. BTW: even though I haven't done any serious listening(I did use my dual driver Westone's, though), the lav that Tentacle includes, doesn't sound bad. I think you could cut it in with COS-11's and the like with very little effort.

[puredrifting]

Well, sadly, the splitter cables do not work as envisioned. They do technically work, but the level from the lav drops and extraneous noise is introduced when you raise it. Started playing around with it after I listened to it to see if I could figure out anything on my own and if you just plug the lav into the splitter and then only into the Lectro belt pack, there is no signal going into the Lectro. Plug the splitter into both and still nothing. Turn on the mic power in the Track E and then you have signal to both, albeit it's low and with added noise. And here is the strange part, unplug it from the Lectro and leave it only in the Track E and it sounds fine. So it does work as a TA5-to-3.5mm adapter, but you can find dedicated adapters for much less on Amazon.

I'm curious if they wired the splitter to not take/block power from the Lectro? I guess I'll call Remote Audio on Monday and see if they have any ideas based on the above or if this is just a dead-end. I am a little disappointed. I was cautiously optimistic and I like the Track E's after playing around with them(just received them yesterday). Even if they can't figure out a way to split the lav's cleanly and with enough signal, I'll probably still hang onto the Track E's. BTW: even though I haven't done any serious listening(I did use my dual driver Westone's, though), the lav that Tentacle includes, doesn't sound bad. I think you could cut it in with COS-11's and the like with very little effort.

Ah bummer man. We had high hopes. Oh well, not confirmed there is no other solution yet with Remote Audio. Keep us posted.

[Run&Gun]

Ah bummer man. We had high hopes. Oh well, not confirmed there is no other solution yet with Remote Audio. Keep us posted.

Yeah, hoping they can come up with a good solution that would still be simple.

[Greg_E]

Battery powered amp might be needed, but extra bulk. I don't think you can get enough current to power a "simple" amp from the bias current sources on either device.

[BrianMurphy]

Newsshooter.com just posted another review that seems to answer my question. Though the unit they evaluated was purchased in Japan, they state that Zoom do not make a USA only version. So I will order one here based on this. Here is the link to the review:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2021/01/14/zoom-f2-review/

[Heezzi]

Newsshooter.com just posted another review that seems to answer my question. Though the unit they evaluated was purchased in Japan, they state that Zoom do not make a USA only version. So I will order one here based on this. Here is the link to the review:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2021/01/14/zoom-f2-review/

Let us know when you get it.

[JAMedia]

Newsshooter.com just posted another review that seems to answer my question. Though the unit they evaluated was purchased in Japan, they state that Zoom do not make a USA only version.

Yet that is demonstrably not true. I seem to recall two part numbers and US Web sites having one part number and everywhere else having a different one.