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    #71
    Senior Member ahalpert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob norton View Post
    Why does aputure need to incrementally increase in size rather than going straight for a bigger light? I think they (and everyone) may be up against it for the next leap in output while keeping the size down.
    I thought this was partially a market decision since the number of buyers probably shrinks as you go up in cost and weight. Plus, they can learn more about heat management as they go and perhaps invest R&D time more efficiently.

    You're saying maybe theres a threshold where you're adding more heat than you can vent? Then I suppose the question is how many design innovations remain to be found

    The only caveat to the "you can make 2 600Ds so just make 1 1200D" theory is that it might necessitate a much larger/wider unit than is practical since the 2 lights are spreading the heat out

    Not sure if this solves any rigging challenges of dealing with 2 lights instead of 1, but DOP choice is selling a 600D dual mount, per newsshooter: Screen-Shot-2020-12-10-at-14.50.22-740x608.jpg


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    #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahalpert View Post
    You're saying maybe theres a threshold where you're adding more heat than you can vent? Then I suppose the question is how many design innovations remain to be found

    Not sure if this solves any rigging challenges of dealing with 2 lights instead of 1, but DOP choice is selling a 600D dual mount, per newsshooter: Screen-Shot-2020-12-10-at-14.50.22-740x608.jpg
    Yeah exactly. I can't quite remember but years ago we were getting pretty sci fi with the discussion and I think I mentioned that maybe it'd be audio post tools getting so good that you could have huge fans to cool the lights and completely remove the sound in post. This obviously wouldn't work for everything or even a lot of things but a reminder that we might get there in other ways. Mole Richardson saw value in being among the first in the "huge" space rather than only working their way up.

    It's hard to tell by the photo, do you have to tilt both heads at the same time? The DOP choice option is OK but I'd be trying to avoid a softbox at that point and go into a regular frame if possible.


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    #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Coughlin View Post
    Dang, Practilite is lower powered. How do the Hive 100C and 200C stack up as far as wattage use at different Kelvins? Is the Hive 575 going to be a lot less bright at 3200K and 5600K than the 600D because the Hive 575 may only be using 275 watts at those color temps?



    I don't know, but when you consider they started with the 120, then went to 300, and now to 600, clearly it's a trend to start small and go big. Same with most LED manufacturers. Arri started with the S60 and later added an S360.
    It's not just that they started out smaller. They also started out with a totally different build quality and feature set. Their earlier fixtures (The original Amarans that preceeded the Lightstorm fixtures) had decent color quality, but were just as plasticky and prone to breakage as anything from Neewer, Yongnuo, or any other super cheapo fixtures you'd get off of Amazon. They then brought the initial Lightstorm lights, but still marketed toward the same low end budget indie/OMB crowd, but just with much better quality and better features, and yes, more output.

    Puredrifting mentioned how his LS1 fixture is broken and that these are mid-level Chinese lights. I'd say that Aputure has had three levels:

    1. Original Amaran (good color rendering, very cheap build, few features)

    2. Middle quality (lightstorm 120d, 120d, LS1s/c, these are still for owner operators who baby their own gear, but with more robust features and more output) My ls1s still works perfectly, but reports of failures like Pure's definitely are out there.

    3. Then the more recent fixtures that they CLAIM are worthy of rentals in terms of build quality and features (300dmk2, 300x, Nova 300c, 600d Pro, etc). Only time will tell if this third tier is gonna be as robust as they claim. I've had no issues yet, but it's not been that long nor that much use yet. On the surface, the build quality is indeed way higher now. The spotlight for example is a tank and comes in a case that resembles a mini anvil flight case.

    They are straddling the owner operator/rental fence with the most recent fixtures.

    Then, they realized that it's time to return to/clean up the cheapo market and away we go with the recent amaran COBs.

    I have no idea what their internal conversations are like and why their roadmap is the way it is, but they clearly were after building a base that was broad and adding higher levels up the pyramid over time. I can't fault them there. It also goes hand in hand with their social media style marketing.

    and you have full-time pro gaffers like Luke Seerveld and such reviewing and using the most recent fixtures with very positive reviews.

    None of this means that they are replacing M18's yet. But they keep expanding their base while climbing the rungs of production level and our now in the rental zone, adding more power, more connectivity (an ecosystem), and better build quality.

    I'm not sure that ANY LED is an investment the way that an older Arri is. This type of tech is naturally more prone to issues and failure over time compared to simpler designs (Tungsten, etc). It's like the electronics in my German -built car. I love all of the features, and it rides great. But damn, it's expensive when anything goes south and certainly not self-serviceable, and because it's more complicated, things can and do go south more frequently than that old Ford Mustang that you can work on in your driveway.

    Man, I hate it when people launch into the stupid car analogies. I'm done. My apologies.
    Last edited by ozmorphasis; 12-13-2020 at 05:57 PM.


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    #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozmorphasis View Post
    ... Man, I hate it when people launch into the stupid car analogies. I'm done. My apologies.
    Car analogies ... bringing peace and understanding throughout the world. Rest easy my son.


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    #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    Car analogies ... bringing peace and understanding throughout the world. Rest easy my son.
    Maybe on car forums they're using film equipment analogies?


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    #77
    Senior Member Liam Hall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puredrifting View Post
    Not me, my five crappy Magenta-tinted Godox (three VL300s and two VL150s I got from Adorama for Black Friday) are doing great and making me good money the past few months.
    The slight Magenta bias is a non issue unless you cannot color correct. We've been live streaming with them and the images and skin tones look wonderful, clients have even specifically
    commented how great talent looks, even with some of the crappy, low end BMD Studio cams we used at a TV studio last weekend or our old Sony PXW-X70s I used the other night. vMix has
    color correction controls, it took just a hair of compensation to make talent look great.
    Good. Hence my comment about not being too down-hearted. I think the key to it is not mixing too many brands. Then it's easier to deal with slight shifts in colour.
    "There is nothing permanent except change."
    Heraclitus

    www.liamhall.net
    TWITTER: @WordsbyLiam
    INSTAGRAM: @picsbyliam


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    #78
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    Is it possible to add some diffusion in front of the Amaran 200x (or behind the fresnel) to blend the strips and be able to use the fresnel? What is used in the 300x that blends the different color strips and allows the fresnel to be used?


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    #79
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    Am I deluding myself by thinking that two 200ds on a double/triple header punched through a 4x4 will yield a similar output to a 300d ii? If I buy them, I also fully expect that I may need to swap out the fans for quieter ones. I know it's not ideal to buy a new piece of kit knowing that I'll have to mod it and void the warranty, but I've done with every actively cooled light I have owned. Quiet audio is important to me.

    The alternative would be to buy a 300d ii for twice as much and then supplement with the Lightstorm LS1s that I already own. The only problem is that the LS1s are 4000K. I guess I could always tape some CTB on them.

    I've done a lot of research on the competing brands but my regular gaffer only uses Aputure lights so that has a lot of sway in this decision. He's already got all of the big Aputures for our bigger shoots together, including a 600d on the way. I'm just looking for a simple, manageable kit for OMB shoots. My LS1s alone aren't powerful enough to fight a window and my 575w HMIs are overkill for these and at 20lbs each, they aren't doing my back any favors. And I need to get back to a OMB kit that will fit on my Rock N Roller in one trip -- the HMIs take up half the cart.
    Last edited by QuickHitRecord; 03-01-2021 at 11:17 PM.


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    #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuickHitRecord View Post
    Am I deluding myself by thinking that two 200ds on a double/triple header punched through a 4x4 will yield a similar output to a 300d ii? I also fully expect that I may need to swap out the fans for quieter ones. I know it's not ideal to buy a new piece of kit knowing that I'll have to mod it and void the warranty, but I've done with every actively cooled light I have owned. Quiet audio is important to me.

    The alternative would be to buy a 300d ii for twice as much and then supplement with the Lightstorm LS1s that I already own. The only problem is that the LS1s are 4000K. I guess I could always tape some CTB on them.

    I've done a lot of research on the competing brands but my regular gaffer only uses Aputure lights so that has a lot of sway in this decision. He's already got all of the big Aputures for our bigger shoots together, including a 600d on the way. I'm just looking for a simple, manageable kit for OMB shoots. My LS1s alone aren't powerful enough to fight a window and my 575w HMIs are overkill for these and at 20lbs each, they aren't doing my back any favors. And I need to get back to a OMB kit that will fit on my Rock N Roller in one trip -- the HMIs take up half the cart.
    The pair of 200d will be brighter than the 300dmk2 when combined.

    The LS1s is 5600k, not 4000k.

    If you want good quality and low prices, but with good amount of output, I think the Godox are the way to go. I myself and more of an Aputure guy these days, but they do cost more. I chose not to get any of the new Amarans because there are too many gotchas and shortcomings, the fan noise that you are alluding to being one of those gotchas. Plastic build, no convenient battery option, no case, etc.

    If you want to stick with Aputure and you own an LS1s already, I would consider a used 300d mk2.


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