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    #61
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    Photokina says it was the decline of cameras that caused it to collapse. We can assume the phone killed Photokina. Camera manufacturers focused their marketing budgets to other more important shows.

    There are so many cheap ways to market equipment now. Just hand a camera to popular vloggers that won't say anything critical about your camera (they only get popular with manufactures if they play nice) and you get a pile of good reviews and buzz that cost virtually nothing.

    Conferences like NAB and IBC will be evaluated by exhibitors. The pandemic offered the perfect opportunity to find out what impact those shows have and if it is worth attending.
    Last edited by Paul F; 11-29-2020 at 12:01 PM.


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    #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    Photokina says it was the decline of cameras that caused it to collapse. We can assume the phone killed Photokina. Camera manufacturers focused their marketing budgets to other more important shows.

    There are so many cheap ways to market equipment now. Just hand a camera to popular vloggers that won't say anything critical about your camera (they only get popular with manufactures if they play nice) and you get a pile of good reviews and buzz that cost virtually nothing.

    Conferences like NAB and IBC will be evaluated by exhibitors. The pandemic offered the perfect opportunity to find out what impact those shows have and if it is worth attending.
    Yeah, think of how many reviews start with "ok, guys, I am not getting paid, and I had to return the camera, so these are my unbiased...." ....150K targeted views = cost of shipping camera to reviewer


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    #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    Photokina says it was the decline of cameras that caused it to collapse. We can assume the phone killed Photokina. Camera manufacturers focused their marketing budgets to other more important shows.
    Was any show more important than Photokina?


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    #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Dilworth View Post
    Was any show more important than Photokina?
    Yes, for DVXusers, NAB, IBC, and Cinegear all get more attention.


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    #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by James0b57 View Post
    Yeah, think of how many reviews start with "ok, guys, I am not getting paid, and I had to return the camera, so these are my unbiased...." ....150K targeted views = cost of shipping camera to reviewer
    One day, someone will add up the view totals for a new camera release from the Top 15-20 Vloggers. It should easily pass a couple of million.

    Of course, the mobile phone reviews are in tens of millions.

    PS. "I don't get paid for this video" is an interesting disclaimer. I wonder if the follow-up is, "but the manufacturers do send me gifts and store coupons".


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    #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    Nikon, much like Olympus, was fooled by the promises of a cartel. They agreed to play nice with one another and concentrate on the photography portion of the business.
    What makes you believe there was a cartel?
    Am a Sound Recordist in New Zealand: http://ironfilm.co.nz/sound/
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    #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Dilworth View Post
    Reviewers talk about differences with little regard for the significance of those differences. Nikon thrashed Canon for dynamic range for a decade and yet no-one except reviewers cared.
    No, the average reviewer didn't even comment about how Nikon dominated over Canon for years with dynamic range and high ISO performance. If they had, then Canon would never have had the same market share lead over Nikon that it had.
    Am a Sound Recordist in New Zealand: http://ironfilm.co.nz/sound/
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    #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C. View Post
    I had this idea when I was in the shower this moring. Imagine if Nikon only did what they were good at the body and lens, then on the back of the camera you insert your phone into an adapter plate, that interfaces with the camera. You use the phone's great touch screen and interface to control the camera and view your images.
    That's been kinda tried beforehand, unfortunately the Sony QX100/QX10 was a flop. Many people want physical buttons, not just a smartphone's touch screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    Which doesn't stop six billion people from using their smartphones for photography.

    As to markets, ARRI generates (roughly) $200,000,000 annually with their camera sales. At $50,000 wholesale average, it's about 4,000 units. But the lower tier pro is pretty hot now with A7SIII, C70, FX-6 and so on. As the video pyramid expands, it expands at the bottom more and a sub-$10,000 cameras are good enough now to get a lot of work.

    Nikon, however, has shunned this market. As had Olympus.
    Got a link to where it stats ARRI gets $200M/yr just from camera sales? As ARRI has lots of other revenue streams as well.
    Last edited by IronFilm; 11-30-2020 at 02:54 AM.
    Am a Sound Recordist in New Zealand: http://ironfilm.co.nz/sound/
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    #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
    What makes you believe there was a cartel?
    It's been discussed here for at least half a decade. First with incredulity, then with acceptance. I would say there's a prima facie evidence of the photo-industry operating as a Japanese cartel of manufacturers controlling features, technical specs and prices between each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
    ... Got a link to where it stats ARRI gets $200M/yr just from camera sales? As ARRI has lots of other revenue streams as well.
    ARRI publicly stated it hit about $400,000,000 in revenues some time around 2017. As a privately held company, it doesn't have to release the exact numbers. I took a conservative estimate of the 50% coming from purely camera sales, not counting the accessories and licensing fees, and an average wholesale price to the retailer. It's a ballpark guess. 4,000-5,000 units shipped annually.


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    #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post

    ARRI publicly stated it hit about $400,000,000 in revenues some time around 2017. As a privately held company, it doesn't have to release the exact numbers. I took a conservative estimate of the 50% coming from purely camera sales, not counting the accessories and licensing fees, and an average wholesale price to the retailer. It's a ballpark guess. 4,000-5,000 units shipped annually.
    I think Arri would have a far greater proportion of their revenue coming NOT from cameras.

    Lighting for starters. Between Sky panels, M series HMI and now the Orbitals, Arri just totally dominate lighting. A three camera show like mine literally now has many hundreds of Arri lighting units. I have Sky panels into the high hundreds of units and with the M series of HMI's they are the very dominant in lighting use. My show has a few dozen of the M Series HMI's as well all the way up to a couple of Arri Max 18'Ks just for the location package.

    Matteboxes. For every camera they sell they must sell a dozen matteboxes alone...

    Then you look at follow focus....For some reason the Preston still persists in the US...go anywhere else on the planet and it's WCU4s....

    I Just bought an Arri SRH3 stabilised head. It's a lot more than a camera to buy.

    Trinity... Steadicam package.....More than cameras...

    It goes on. I think cameras would be at best 20% of their total sales in dollar terms. They are high value items, but they make plenty of other things that sell at 5 or 6 figure prices in a lot more volume.

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    www.johnbrawley.com
    I also have a blog


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