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    #21
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    Hopefully the above works because that's really exactly what you want if I'm understanding correctly.

    Mixing is an art...and when you can't control a mix's sources physically in real time then you have no other choice but to do it in post - which is the beauty of 32-bit because you have all of those individual tracks - almost no matter their condition - that you can use to create a perfect manual mix by hand if you really needed to.

    Check out the 'AutoMix' function too.


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    #22
    Senior Member David W. Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bassman2003 View Post
    Hello,

    My question for the community is more about handling the files and processing. I have always been in a 24bit environment where levels were set carefully and when working in post, one was mindful of limitations of processing & levels etc... 24bit is very forgiving but 32bit float is totally wide open. I notice that when I bring the tracks in from the F6, the levels have been pretty low in general. I use Cakewalk Sonar X3 as my DAW software and I wanted to ask the preferred way to bring the levels back up?

    For example, I recorded a chamber music group recently and my stereo pair was probably 20-30 feet back form the group. When these tracks were put in Sonar they were probably bouncing around -20dBFS. I have read in the past it is better bring low levels up with compression gain rather than just boosting the faders. What is your take on this? Does it even matter in a 32bit float original file format with the DAWs being 64bit for processing?

    Just wondering as it is sort of a strange situation to be in. One thing I have noticed with the F6 is that the recorded tracks seem very open. I can put a lot more compression on them and they seem to stay unaffected. Overall it has been a great product and I love the NP-F style battery hookup. I can put on a large battery on and not care for the rest of the day.

    Thanks for your input.
    I run the unit in dual record mode, 24bit and 32bit so I can ride the faders as needed to record the level I'm after in 24bit, while the F6 also records a backup in 32bit float.
    When needed the 1/8" output feeds Sennheiser G4 500 transmitters for producer/directors ears, as well as wireless camera hops. Everything is locked together via Tentacle Sync timecode units.

    If I need to change the level of a 32bit file in post I use the "clip gain" function in Pro Tools to raise or lower the selected clip without any adverse affects.


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    #23
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    Thanks David.


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    #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bassman2003 View Post
    I notice that when I bring the tracks in from the F6, the levels have been pretty low in general. I use Cakewalk Sonar X3 as my DAW software and I wanted to ask the preferred way to bring the levels back up?

    For example, I recorded a chamber music group recently and my stereo pair was probably 20-30 feet back form the group. When these tracks were put in Sonar they were probably bouncing around -20dBFS.
    What I'm hearing is that you're thinking your levels aren't high enough. Without hearing a recording clip I'm not sure what's going on, so I'll do what any good forum member does under these circumstances -- I'll guess. So take this for what little it's worth.

    I suspect that the real problem here is microphone position, and has nothing to do with any of your hardware. I say this because 20-30 feet back (that's what... 6-9m in real units?) is a very large distance to be back from something with a microphone. Most acoustical classical music, in a reasonably good hall ends up with the main pair being around 3-3.5m above the stage, and maybe a meter behind the conductor.

    This positioning has a lot of advantages going for it. One of those is that, all other things being equal, it will bring your levels up. As in, up to where you expect them to be. This positioning also gives you a better signal to noise ratio (goes to clarity) while giving you a better balance of instrument sound to hall sound (goes to envelopment).

    The 3.5m up and 1m back is just a starting point. The actual location of the main pair is going to depend on actually listening to your setup. Every group of musicians is different, directors are different, halls are different, etc. But at least it's a place to start. The right baroque group in the right "old pile of stones" cathedral (that is, one with a nice long reverb [a T60 time in the 6+ second range] that's a really attractive reverb (some are, some aren't) and you might be moving your mics farther back to take more advantage of the hall sound. But I've never recorded any group from more than a few meters back.

    Clearly, YMMV. There are many paths to the waterfall. All that. But the primary point is, listen to your setup, and trust your ears. This is the hard part. Setting up the hardware is easy in comparison. At least that's how it usually works out.


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    #25
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    Thanks Bruce. Great input. The problem was that I had the output levels set low thinking the input levels on the F6 were greyed out, and not being affected by these settings. Turns out, the output levels are the input levels as well.

    I had the mics back a bit because it was a video project and I had the mic stand as close as possible by my cameras but out of the frame. I also close mic'd the piano and some other things as well with a boom etc... The project turned out great and the F6 sounded very nice with a lot of flexibility. Doing these type of recordings with video has some inherent compromises but technology helps overcome the gaps.


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    #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C. View Post
    The Zoom F8n is a more full feature mixer that might have what you want. There also break out boxes that help if you want a larger interface to work with while recording. I think of the F6 as a lower end, designed to mix multiple sources and send to your camera, not as a truly pro level mixer. This doesn't mean the audio quality is bad, just that higher end equipment have more features and their interface is better. You might just be exceeding the intended use of this device.
    I fully agree that if someone is aspiring to a production sound mixer, they should always choose the Zoom F8n over the Zoom F6 to buy if that will be there main/only mixer. Simply because the Zoom F8n has more features/redundancy that matters than the prosumer F6.
    Am a Sound Recordist in New Zealand: http://ironfilm.co.nz/sound/
    Follow my vlog and adventures in sound: https://www.youtube.com/c/SoundSpeeding


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