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    Senior Member Thomas Smet's Avatar
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    The HDMI port is debatable to be honest. There is a massive percentage of DSLR users that will never once use the HDMI port. Even with the GH4 needing a external recorder for Vlog I absolutely hated using it with a external recorder. It was used on occasion out of necessity but I happily used the camera as is 90% of the time with the built in profiles like Natural. Once the GH5 added internal 10bit 4:2:2 that kind of killed the dire need for external recording. There is now only a marginal reason to record externally and for most not really worth the hassle.

    Some people don't mind lugging around an external monitor and the full size HDMI port is more robust. The micro port is very flimsy and can break easily. Part of that is on how rough some users are with cameras and part of it is the fact that its just a really delicate port. You really should use some kind of HDMI clamp on a camera with a micro HDMI port. Another thing I hated about external recording on the GH4. I needed a cage and HDMI clamp to use the Ninja Blade safely. Once decked out it was fine but cumbersome.

    It is a bummer the S5 only has a micro HDMI port but I think the target audience was to make a more compact camera with FF stills quality and amazing out of the box 10bit log video. Panasonic was likely targeting those that wanted a compact design to use as is and therefore much less likely to ever both using the HDMI port. The port is there for those who really want to use an external recorder and for those if they use a cage and HDMI clamp it will be perfectly fine. There is no quality difference from micro HDMI other than its very fragile and can break easily. Use a clamp and it will likely be perfectly fine for those rare users that will use an external recorder on the S5. I think the only logical use is ProRes Raw outside of those that want a better screen for focus. It doesn't make as much sense to record ProRes externally from the S5 vs the internal 10bit format which is very solid. There are some that really want ProRes instantly for their workflow and that's totally fine and the S5 with a cage/clamp provides that perfectly. As much as I would love to have ProRes raw I still don't think I ever want to bother with a external recorder ever again. The S5 is really about having a compact hybrid camera that does amazing stills and video and ready to either at any moment.

    I also wonder how many with a GH5 that use a external recorder don't use some kind of cage/clamp or at least a cage with a clamp option. I bet the percentage is very tiny.


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    Senior Member Thomas Smet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLD View Post
    Not really. Pro division vs. consumer. An $1800 Gh-5 vs. $6,500 EVA 1, with LT going for about $20,000 as a shooting package. Too big a gap.

    Of course, Nikon, Olympus and Fuji had absolutely nothing to protect and still stayed from the low end cinema niche. Which BMD was more than happy to fill.
    Sony is the same way. Plus the Canon cinema cameras are not really the same division as the DSLRs. I'm not sure that really matters. The point was Panasonic does have higher end gear and while they are two separate divisions you can tell a lot of technology was shared between the two like 10bit 4:2:2, DCI 4k, true 24p, 0-255/16-235 option, V-log and dual native ISO. I also don't really care which division it is if the cameras work well together and the reality is the GH4, GH5 and GH5s compliment the EVA 1 and Varicam very well.


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    Senior Member Peter C.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by combatentropy View Post
    I have a stupid question. Why is an HDMI port important, and why must it be a full-size one? (I guess that's two stupid questions.) Every thread I read, there is at least one post about HDMI, and make it full size. So everybody wants it, everybody gets it, but me.
    It's not a stupid question. As soon you start using it on a regular basis you'll find the cable easily pulls out. The connection is fragile and prone to breaking. Not only would it be bad if broke on a shoot, it's expensive to repair, and you'll without your camera while it's being fixed. Under heavy use you can expect it to repeatedly to break.

    It you're going to use an external recorder/monitor for professional shoots it's advisable to pick a camera with a robust external connection such as full hdmi. So that limits the cameras you can use but there are a good number of options. Black Magic , Canon cinema line, Sony A7s3, A7III, A6600, and the GH5

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Smet View Post
    Sony is the same way. Plus the Canon cinema cameras are not really the same division as the DSLRs. I'm not sure that really matters. The point was Panasonic does have higher end gear and while they are two separate divisions you can tell a lot of technology was shared between the two like 10bit 4:2:2, DCI 4k, true 24p, 0-255/16-235 option, V-log and dual native ISO. I also don't really care which division it is if the cameras work well together and the reality is the GH4, GH5 and GH5s compliment the EVA 1 and Varicam very well.
    It does matter. I would argue that all manufactures are more concerned about how their products compete with themselves than they do with the competition. Depending on the manufactures philosophy and product families they approach it differently. Panasonic and Fuji have been the beneficiary of this practice that Canon is famous for. If Canon wanted to they could have come out with a better mirrorless than Panasonic GH5, at a similar price point, with the same features but by doing so they would only be hurting themselves and undercutting their Cinema line. Canon will never come out and say this but they do not want their photo cameras to be used as dedicated video cameras. They use various means to cripple them to accomplish this goal. Canon has far more to protect because they offer a large family of cinema cameras, with carefully thought out features offered at various price points and form factors close to their photographic dslr/mirrorless cameras.

    Sony is in different position and have decided that they will allow their mirrorless cameras to be used as dedicated video cameras. But even they have separate families the R for photography the S for video and 7 is their hybrid. All the manufactures carefully slot their cameras in specific niches that don't directly compete against one another. This practice is referred to as the "Cartel".
    Last edited by Peter C.; 12-09-2020 at 09:48 AM.


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    Sony was very careful in separating the videocentric 7S from FS-7. It's not that I have any inside info but one has to figure that it was the case of their pro division going to the top of the corporate and asking to delay 7SIII for several years, so not to cannibalize the sales of FS-7. FS-7 hit the right spot vs. C300 MKII and became a low end production stalwart.

    Panasonic didn't do quite as well with EVA1 and had no FF models period. Besides, as mentioned here before, the big money is in the consumer sector, with the high end pro moving too few pieces to make a dent in a conglomerate financials.

    And then you get into the cartel decision making. Panasonic asked to move into the full frame market because that's where Sony wanted the market to go due to the incoming 8K and the need to mass produce a single line of sensors. And so Panasonic got its S1, Nikon Z6, Sony AIII, Sigma fp and all of those came out at around $2,000 and the MFT had to take a backseat.

    In a free market, GH-5 and A7SII would have been updated within 18-24 months. Alas ...


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    Quote Originally Posted by combatentropy View Post
    I have a stupid question. Why is an HDMI port important, and why must it be a full-size one?
    Not saying it’s important to everyone. But it’s one of many features the GH cameras offer that cannot be found in full-frame alternatives except perhaps at 2–3× the price.

    While we’re asking stupid questions: why is a full-frame sensor so important that it trumps all else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C. View Post
    […] it's advisable to pick a camera with a robust external connection such as full hdmi. So that limits the cameras you can use but there are a good number of options. Black Magic ,
    Yep. Kinda niche (albeit cool).

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C. View Post
    Canon cinema line,
    Yep. Multiple times the price of a GH5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C. View Post
    Sony A7s3,
    Yep, 3× the price.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C. View Post
    A7III,
    Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C. View Post
    A6600,
    Nope. Where are you getting this stuff?

    Also nope: every other camera in this rough price range that I bothered to check, right up to the Canon EOS R5. Luckily full-frame über alles.


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    Senior Member Peter C.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Dilworth View Post
    Not saying it’s important to everyone. But it’s one of many features the GH cameras offer that cannot be found in full-frame alternatives except perhaps at 2–3× the price.

    While we’re asking stupid questions: why is a full-frame sensor so important that it trumps all else?


    Yep. Kinda niche (albeit cool).


    Yep. Multiple times the price of a GH5.


    Yep, 3× the price.


    Nope.


    Nope. Where are you getting this stuff?

    Also nope: every other camera in this rough price range that I bothered to check, right up to the Canon EOS R5. Luckily full-frame über alles.
    I made a mistake with the A7III/6600. I haven't used both of those cameras in a while. You're being idiotic. There are options like the C100 and the BM at that price point. Who's fault is it that you're not willing to pay for the A7s3?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C. View Post
    I made a mistake with the A7III/6600. I haven't used both of those cameras in a while. You're being idiotic. There are options like the C100 and the BM at that price point. Who's fault is it that you're not willing to pay for the A7s3?
    Harsh! And entirely my own fault.

    Good point, though. Why doesn’t everyone just pay €4k for a camera? Beats me.


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    Quote Originally Posted by combatentropy View Post
    I have a stupid question. Why is an HDMI port important, and why must it be a full-size one? (I guess that's two stupid questions.) Every thread I read, there is at least one post about HDMI, and make it full size. So everybody wants it, everybody gets it, but me.

    I'm guessing it's because you want to attach an external recorder. But I thought 10-bit 4:2:2 was good enough and is now available internally.

    Or maybe it's because you want a bigger screen. That's a shame. I personally think the ideal size is 4", but they keep making them with 3" screens. 5" is too big for my tastes. Still, I would rather have a 3" built-in screen than run around with a big ol' screen attached (your tastes may differ). If your reason is a bigger or better screen, tell me, what would you require to stop wanting one? A 5" screen is probably too big ever to fit on a camera this size. But maybe 4". Or maybe 3" or 3.5" would suffice for you if the resolution was good enough, or the focus-assistive instrumentation was good enough (peaking, etc.).

    And again, what's the deal with everyone wanting the HDMI full size? Doesn't it take just a cable adapter to go from HDMI to micro-HDMI?

    Anyway, as far as the ports of the future (the near future), I would rather have USB 4. It's replacing everything: old USB, Thunderbolt, power cords, HDMI, display port, etc. It's 40 Gbps!!!
    Many of us work on sets which are bigger than just ourselves working all alone! Thus it becomes essential that you're able to share your screen with others. A micro HDMI port for that purpose just doesn't cut it.

    Need at least full size HDMI, ideally SDI. (but SDI is unfortunately likely dreaming... but one can hope)
    Am a Sound Recordist in New Zealand: http://ironfilm.co.nz/sound/
    Follow my vlog and adventures in sound: https://www.youtube.com/c/SoundSpeeding


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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFilm View Post
    Many of us work on sets which are bigger than just ourselves working all alone! Thus it becomes essential that you're able to share your screen with others. A micro HDMI port for that purpose just doesn't cut it.

    Need at least full size HDMI, ideally SDI. (but SDI is unfortunately likely dreaming... but one can hope)
    Different form factor, but that's one of the reasons why we just bought a BGH1 -- will start playing with it tomorrow.


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    Full size HDMI to connect to Ninja V for both larger screen with exposure controls and recording to 10 bit 4:2:2 ProRes. GH5 will record 10bit internally but only to 30P in UHD I shoot UHD 60P so need external recording to get that. I also have sync modules for Ninja V so can record sync video for multicam. Mini HDMI is too damage prone even for an amateur like me. I always record on a tripod so size is of no concern. Yes a BGH1 would have been my choice if they had been around when I bought the GH5 and certainly the GH5S. If they could be controlled from the Ninja V like the Z-Cam that would also be a bonus.


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